Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[monkers]

I said that Brexit needs to be a disaster, then be seen to be a disaster, and we got the former but not the latter, it seems.

"People laughed when I said I'd be prime minister. Well, they're not laughing now, are they."
Nigel Farage, Downing Street, 2029.

Actually presta in my opinion, you are absolutely correct. Farage demanded that we leave the EU. This ended the Dublin 3 agreement that enabled the UK to return asylum seekers who had first arrived to other European states. The Dublin 3 agreement ended because of Brexit and there was no replacement.

Now he demands that the UK leave the EHCR, the ECtHR, and repeal the UK Human Rights Act. None of which restores the Dublin 3 agreement or creates a new agreement.

What it does is strip everyone of all their human rights, and he'll need to raise a lot of money from ordinary people to give to the Taliban to take people already here in this country, who will simply murder them. UK citizens will have no human rights, while the most of the rest of world remains protected.

Somehow people need to see the true character of Farage, but in my experience it is relatively easy to recruit people to fascism. All that is needed is a moral panic fueled by fear and hatred and billionaire funding.

 

[secretsqirrel]

There is going to be a lot of unhappy people once they are faced with the consequences of the UK leaving the ECHR. “What’s it ever done for us ?” Muppets, and turkeys at that.

I was listening to Jeremy Hunt on a podcast a few weeks ago, his take is that we should not leave the ECHR but reform from within, and the best person to do that is Starmer.

 

[monkers]

It's just lazy leftie/wokey bollox to dismiss any concerns about immigration as racist. The above is a great example.

Lazy and frankly dimwitted explanation.

The truth is that Farage & Co used race-based fear to recruit the gullible to vote for Brexit. Brexit destroyed the ability to return people arriving here back to Europe. Inevitably the numbers of stayers increased hugely as a consequence, Now they are using the same race-based fear to recruit the gullible to vote for them in a general election. They know that Brexit ended the Dublin Agreement that has increased the numbers, but they blame that on this government and the previous one.

Frankly only the most stupid of people could see it differently, and if you feel that the problem is now that those people on the left saw this coming and resisted it are to blame, then you are at the most stupid end of stupid. I suppose you'll be happy to see tax increases introduced under Reform so that the Taliban can be paid to take undocumented arrivals? Without your human rights, how confident are you that you'll be listened to or be free to protest?

 

[Pblakeney]

I was listening to Jeremy Hunt on a podcast a few weeks ago, his take is that we should not leave the ECHR but reform from within, and the best person to do that is Starmer.

One could have said the same for the EU and David Cameron but hey ho.
This country is nearing the pitchfork stage.

 

[CXRAndy]

Ah, so Europeans are OK, but brown people aren't. That's why they voted to leave the EU.

Got it.

https://bsky.app/profile/petehowelondon.bsky.social/post/3lxn3tp2qjc2m

View attachment 9729

Its ok for Chinese/Japanese to preserve their culture not the English?

 

[briantrumpet]

One could have said the same for the EU and David Cameron but hey ho.
This country is nearing the pitchfork stage.

The irony wasn't lost on me either. Brexit really did break their brains.

 

[Stevo 666]

Lazy and frankly dimwitted explanation.

The truth is that Farage & Co used race-based fear to recruit the gullible to vote for Brexit. Brexit destroyed the ability to return people arriving here back to Europe. Inevitably the numbers of stayers increased hugely as a consequence, Now they are using the same race-based fear to recruit the gullible to vote for them in a general election. They know that Brexit ended the Dublin Agreement that has increased the numbers, but they blame that on this government and the previous one.

Frankly only the most stupid of people could see it differently, and if you feel that the problem is now that those people on the left saw this coming and resisted it are to blame, then you are at the most stupid end of stupid. I suppose you'll be happy to see tax increases introduced under Reform so that the Taliban can be paid to take undocumented arrivals? Without your human rights, how confident are you that you'll be listened to or be free to protest?

I see you've signed up to the same knee jerk leftiebollox.

 

[Dorset Boy]

Brexit came about because there was a record turnout from low income households and those in social housing in comparison to a general election. Those people who felt the traditional parties and politics had utterly failed them over the previous 25 years as they had become poorer and everyone else wealthier.
Those people felt that they had nothing left to lose and that change, any change, could not be worse than the situation they felt they were in, and going out and voting would enable that change.

Now you can argue that Brexit has made their situation even worse, or at least no better, but at least understand why those people turned out to vote, and hence why the result was what it was.

Farage continues to represent that chance of change for those people, so if they again turn out to vote, and the traditional politicians continue to fail to improve their lot, Farage will be PM by 2029.

 

[Stevo 666]

That didn't answer my questions either.

But oddly, I'm not of the mindset that a thing automatically becomes irrelevant if you've seen it before. Some things bear repeating, so you'll just have to suffer the ennui.

View attachment 9728

You seem a bit defensive about your re-use of the same pic. There is no excuse for the sort of behaviour shown in your standard pic, but you could at least try to get some others.

Just to show that there are other such events that you could find pics for, how about (say) the recent riots in Switzerland as I'm this article:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/migrant-riots-have-come-to-switzerland/

Or do they get a free leftie pass?

 

[Stevo 666]

Stevo would never repeat the allegory of the bloke down the pub buying beers, as if it's worth using once, it's worth using the 2639 times he's used it to explain socialism.

Hang on, that doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense to you because you don't want to understand it. Or can't because you don't have a good enough understanding of the subject matter. Which is ironic really, as the allegory was to allow the less sharp tools in the box to get the point.

 

[Stevo 666]

There is going to be a lot of unhappy people once they are faced with the consequences of the UK leaving the ECHR. “What’s it ever done for us ?” Muppets, and turkeys at that.

What would these terrible consequences be?

 

[Stevo 666]

Brexit came about because there was a record turnout from low income households and those in social housing in comparison to a general election. Those people who felt the traditional parties and politics had utterly failed them over the previous 25 years as they had become poorer and everyone else wealthier.
Those people felt that they had nothing left to lose and that change, any change, could not be worse than the situation they felt they were in, and going out and voting would enable that change.

Now you can argue that Brexit has made their situation even worse, or at least no better, but at least understand why those people turned out to vote, and hence why the result was what it was.

Farage continues to represent that chance of change for those people, so if they again turn out to vote, and the traditional politicians continue to fail to improve their lot, Farage will be PM by 2029.

Do you really think that the people you're talking to here will want to try to understand? Unlikely. Far more likely that they will continue with their 'we know better' attitude and the likely political outcome that both you and I have mentioned. Then they will then really have something to whinge about.

 

[Pblakeney]

Brexit came about because there was a record turnout from low income households and those in social housing in comparison to a general election. Those people who felt the traditional parties and politics had utterly failed them over the previous 25 years as they had become poorer and everyone else wealthier.
Those people felt that they had nothing left to lose and that change, any change, could not be worse than the situation they felt they were in, and going out and voting would enable that change.

Now you can argue that Brexit has made their situation even worse, or at least no better, but at least understand why those people turned out to vote, and hence why the result was what it was.

Farage continues to represent that chance of change for those people, so if they again turn out to vote, and the traditional politicians continue to fail to improve their lot, Farage will be PM by 2029.

It was pointed out repeatedly that Brexit would makes their lives worse but they chose to ignore that.
Stupid is as stupid does and they are wanting to repeat their stupidity.
Change can most definitely be for the worse and that is coming from someone unlikely to be affected. I could feel sorry for them but I won’t. It’s the others who need to stand up against this snake oil salesman. You just need to look at the US to see where we are potentially heading.

 

[Pblakeney]

 

[briantrumpet]

It was pointed out repeatedly that Brexit would makes their lives worse but they chose to ignore that.
Stupid is as stupid does and they are wanting to repeat their stupidity.
Change can most definitely be for the worse and that is coming from someone unlikely to be affected. I could feel sorry for them but I won’t. It’s the others who need to stand up against this snake oil salesman. You just need to look at the US to see where we are potentially heading.

It's a dilemma how to respond to wilful ignorance born out of desperation (or 'legitimate concerns'): you don't win them over by pointing out the ignorance, but at the same time, not pushing back on the ignorance simply lets it fester and become normalised & accepted. That's what Labour is doing at the moment - no sign of making a counterargument, for fear of upsetting people whose votes they want/need.