Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[All uphill]

Genuine question, why do they? My issue is this, we are really talking about asylum seekers, not immigration overall. These alleged protesters are turning up at premises housing Asylum Seekers, they aren't turning up at airports telling Americans, Australians, Europeans who are coming here to 'go home'. Therefore, they don't have a problem with immigration, they have a problem with Asylum Seekers.

We had around 800,000 people coming to the UK last year, mainly for work/study there are currently only around 32,000 Asylum Seekers being housed here, so around 4%. This number hardly impacts on us at all. They can't work so they are taking no jobs, they can't get social housing so they aren't taking up LA housing stock. So I ask the question, what is the issue with Asylum Seekers? Why are 100 white working class men turning up in towns and telling a group of non white people to 'go home'?

Dressing this up as people having 'legitimate concerns' around immigration makes no sense. If you had legitimate concerns, make it harder for educated wealthy people to get work visas, push to upskill UK citizens to get better jobs, lobby local authorities to build more houses, argue for higher taxes and a greater spend on public services. Don't turn up at a hotel with a flag and shout in an Eritrean guys face to go home, that just makes you look like a racist.

I am not questioning you personally SF, just the reasoning people give, it doesn't add up IMO.

All true, but how many people do you think know and accept the facts, rather than believing the headlines and the very vocal Mr Farage?

As any sociologist knows it's myths that motivate people not facts.

Where the f**k is the loud voice telling us about the benefits of immigration?

 

[Shortfall]

People have concerns about ALL forms of immigration because of the sheer numbers involved. If the government was building the infrastructure to support a large increase in the population and there was a properly thought through plan of how to integrate the immigrants into the general population then that's one thing, but we have governments of both hues telling us they're going to clamp down on the numbers whilst covertly allowing them to actually go up hugely. I suppose people focus on the asylum hotels because they're a focal point. If hundreds of working age men suddenly appear in your town then you're going to notice it and if some of them go on to commit crimes then it might give you cause for concern. If of course you live in a small village of 400 people like Ian then it's probably not a big issue for you.

 

[Shortfall]

View attachment 9726

What do you want me to say? These people are absolute scum. It doesn't mean that everyone wh has concerns about immigration is storming their nearest hotel and throwing firebombs.

 

[Pross]

Agreed.

Here's a couple of suggestions from someone who volunteers with refugees, me:

Speed up the asylum process. There are people with useful skills who should be out of the hotels, working and paying tax.
Equally there are people who need to be returned.
There are also people who need our support and acceptance.

Build more houses for the benefit of the whole population.

Campaign to get rid of first past the post.

It’s so logical but I think politicians are scared that talking of processing quickly and, heaven forbid, approving applications won’t be seen as being tough. I think a lot of people want to see all asylum seekers being returned.

 

[Stevo 666]

View attachment 9726

How many times have you posted that pic?

 

[Xipe Totec]

How many times have you posted that pic?

Are you uncomfortable with the way people who hold these views can behave, then?

Or is there something else you don't like about it? I suppose they don't all have their faces covered.

 

[Stevo 666]

Are you uncomfortable with the way people who hold these views can behave, then?

Or is there something else you don't like about it? I suppose they don't all have their faces covered.

That didn't answer my question.

But it is getting a bit repetitive.

 

[Xipe Totec]

That didn't answer my question.

But it is getting a bit repetitive.

That didn't answer my questions either.

But oddly, I'm not of the mindset that a thing automatically becomes irrelevant if you've seen it before. Some things bear repeating, so you'll just have to suffer the ennui.

 

[briantrumpet]

That didn't answer my questions either.

But oddly, I'm not of the mindset that a thing automatically becomes irrelevant if you've seen it before. Some things bear repeating, so you'll just have to suffer the ennui.

View attachment 9728

Stevo would never repeat the allegory of the bloke down the pub buying beers, as if it's worth using once, it's worth using the 2639 times he's used it to explain socialism.

Hang on, that doesn't make sense.

 

[Psamathe]

It’s so logical but I think politicians are scared that talking of processing quickly and, heaven forbid, approving applications won’t be seen as being tough. I think a lot of people want to see all asylum seekers being returned.

Most politicians seem to have vacated the field and maybe BBC acting as Reform's PR broadcaster is at least in patt because other politicians have disappeared.

But they've also brought this on themselves and it's those politicians who have created the public outrage at the ashlum seekers. Continually calling them "illegal" and talking about how they "must be stopped" presents them as "undesirable". If gney dtopped dehumanising them and talked about real people in need of asyyand how helping them is something the UK has a tradition of and is part of who we are. If they talked about ghe soft power the UK gets from being part of the ECHR, talk if how it would weaken us and thus our economy were we to withdraw from all these treaties (and there are quite a few we'd be leaving). If politicians highlighted asylum as separate from economic migration rather than conflation, etc., etc. then public reaction would likely be more sympathetic and we could address the real issues facing the country.

But our politicians have disappeared, except for Farage so not surprising Reform is so high in the polls - there's nobody else out there.

 

[briantrumpet]

Most politicians seem to have vacated the field and maybe BBC acting as Reform's PR broadcaster is at least in patt because other politicians have disappeared.

But they've also brought this on themselves and it's those politicians who have created the public outrage at the ashlum seekers. Continually calling them "illegal" and talking about how they "must be stopped" presents them as "undesirable". If gney dtopped dehumanising them and talked about real people in need of asyyand how helping them is something the UK has a tradition of and is part of who we are. If they talked about ghe soft power the UK gets from being part of the ECHR, talk if how it would weaken us and thus our economy were we to withdraw from all these treaties (and there are quite a few we'd be leaving). If politicians highlighted asylum as separate from economic migration rather than conflation, etc., etc. then public reaction would likely be more sympathetic and we could address the real issues facing the country.

But our politicians have disappeared, except for Farage so not surprising Reform is so high in the polls - there's nobody else out there.

See the quote by Tony Benn. He might have been smugly insufferable, but he was right about those who lead and those who follow. Ed Davey is trying to lead to an extent, but is up against media who are chasing the clicks of a populist Farage who knows how to play modern media in inciting the worst in people. Understanding, and pragmatic messy compromise don't sell papers or advertising click-throughs.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Why are all these cash strapped councils being urged to take legal action over the asylum seeker hotels?

According to a barrister on R5 this morning, if Epping goes to the Supreme Court they will fail and then have to pay out huge costs.

 

[briantrumpet]

Ah, so Europeans are OK, but brown people aren't. That's why they voted to leave the EU.

Got it.

https://bsky.app/profile/petehowelondon.bsky.social/post/3lxn3tp2qjc2m

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

All true, but how many people do you think know and accept the facts, rather than believing the headlines and the very vocal Mr Farage?

As any sociologist knows it's myths that motivate people not facts.

Where the f**k is the loud voice telling us about the benefits of immigration?

It should be Starmer but he is still seemingly obsessed with winning back unwinnable votes.

 

[Pblakeney]

Most politicians seem to have vacated the field and maybe BBC acting as Reform's PR broadcaster is at least in patt because other politicians have disappeared.

But they've also brought this on themselves and it's those politicians who have created the public outrage at the ashlum seekers. Continually calling them "illegal" and talking about how they "must be stopped" presents them as "undesirable". If gney dtopped dehumanising them and talked about real people in need of asyyand how helping them is something the UK has a tradition of and is part of who we are. If they talked about ghe soft power the UK gets from being part of the ECHR, talk if how it would weaken us and thus our economy were we to withdraw from all these treaties (and there are quite a few we'd be leaving). If politicians highlighted asylum as separate from economic migration rather than conflation, etc., etc. then public reaction would likely be more sympathetic and we could address the real issues facing the country.

But our politicians have disappeared, except for Farage so not surprising Reform is so high in the polls - there's nobody else out there.

There is going to be a lot of unhappy people once they are faced with the consequences of the UK leaving the ECHR. “What’s it ever done for us ?” Muppets, and turkeys at that.