Rishi - be a Robin Hood, Tax the richer and give to the poorer....

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Craig the cyclist

Über Member
It's rhetoric. They're not real patients.
What on earth are you typing them for then? How bizarre.

Now you are clearly unable or unwilling to tell us numerically how much is rich or wealthy as that would you leave in a sticky situation.

So to reframe the question, why do people on here feel unable to put a figure to the rich/wealthy conundrum? What are people scared of when announcing a number or figure? Is it because they would potentially lose the ability to slag off the Government when their valuations and figures are not far apart?
 

Milkfloat

Active Member
What on earth are you typing them for then? How bizarre.

Now you are clearly unable or unwilling to tell us numerically how much is rich or wealthy as that would you leave in a sticky situation.

So to reframe the question, why do people on here feel unable to put a figure to the rich/wealthy conundrum? What are people scared of when announcing a number or figure? Is it because they would potentially lose the ability to slag off the Government when their valuations and figures are not far apart?
Rich or wealthy is simply a label and varies depending on your own position, just like defining class or political leanings. Someone earning 20k a year in India is far more wealthy than someone earning 40k in London. What is of more value is looking at what we as a society want and are willing to pay for. I listed in an earlier posts the sort of services I would like to see and stated ways I think this can be achieved including higher taxes. I have lived in high tax countries and low tax countries, broadly speaking the higher tax countries understandably have greater equality among the majority of residents. I would be willing and able to pay and extra 10% of tax to provide the services that I think we are lacking in this country, I think that is probably far more than most could currently afford, so as well as increasing tax we need spending to be more efficient and less wasteful.
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
What on earth are you typing them for then? How bizarre.

Now you are clearly unable or unwilling to tell us numerically how much is rich or wealthy as that would you leave in a sticky situation.

So to reframe the question, why do people on here feel unable to put a figure to the rich/wealthy conundrum? What are people scared of when announcing a number or figure? Is it because they would potentially lose the ability to slag off the Government when their valuations and figures are not far apart?
Have you even read the thread? Your point has been addressed repeatedly by myself and by others. It's a meaningless question that can only be answered by someone with significant expertise and/or additional information. Just like my biochemistry questions.
 

mudsticks

Squire
Interestingly, and to forestall one possible objection, the Finnish trial of this showed that the unemployed on a 'universal' income were more likely to find paid employment than those on traditional benefits.

I don't know, but maybe there's a psychological benefit from universal income that means you're less likely to see yourself as an 'unemployed failure' so are more likely to to be successful in job applications.

I think on the whole people want to work, want to feel useful and contribute in some way..


Of course there's always a few 'outliers' or freeloaders who don't.

But Tbh what's the point of forcing incomptetant chinless wonders into work.??

Just let them paint up wine boxes as buses, and keep them out of mischief that way


In my experience having people like that around in the workplace demoralises everyone

Trouble is that a lot of very necessary, socially useful work seems to be set up in such a way as to be almost deliberately unpleasant, demeaning and or unsatisfying. .

Pretty sure it doesn't need to to be like to that.

But I guess it shores up the idea of 'endless growth' capitalism .
You can't say have a hospital cleaner, happy and fulfilled in their work, being able to comfortably secure the basics of life, and having enough spare time income and energy left over to give to other meaningful aspects of their life.

We all have to be striving, trying to clamber over each other, and compensating for our own perceived lack of 'status' with more expensive toys and signs of our 'winning' right?? ..

Or alternatively ...

9

It's a magic number
.
 

Craig the cyclist

Über Member
Have you even read the thread? Your point has been addressed repeatedly by myself and by others. It's a meaningless question that can only be answered by someone with significant expertise and/or additional information. Just like my biochemistry questions.
But it isn't a meaningless question, it is fundamental. The title says that Rishi should tax the rich and give it to the poor. But we are unable to define either of those groups, so the whole thread is simply 99% of the contributors saying 'The Conservatives aren't doing enough', and 1% asking what they should be doing, to which the answer is 'more'. But as we don't know where poor stops and rich begins how can we sensibly debate if enough is being done?

Then you introduced 'wealth' and we have even less chance of defining wealthy.

It boils down to
a. If you voted Conservative the statement seems ok
b. If you didn't then it was rubbish

Maybe we could look back and see if any budget or statement has ever been met with anything than those two positions no matter who delivered it in the last 75 years?

Al Murray has it right, watch it all, don't nod and shut it off after 60 seconds.

 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
But it isn't a meaningless question, it is fundamental. The title says that Rishi should tax the rich and give it to the poor. But we are unable to define either of those groups, so the whole thread is simply 99% of the contributors saying 'The Conservatives aren't doing enough', and 1% asking what they should be doing, to which the answer is 'more'. But as we don't know where poor stops and rich begins how can we sensibly debate if enough is being done?

Then you introduced 'wealth' and we have even less chance of defining wealthy.

It boils down to
a. If you voted Conservative the statement seems ok
b. If you didn't then it was rubbish

Maybe we could look back and see if any budget or statement has ever been met with anything than those two positions no matter who delivered it in the last 75 years?

Al Murray has it right, watch it all, don't nod and shut it off after 60 seconds.


Al Murray 🙄
What about anyone above 80,000 as in the last Corbyn/Labour manifesto ? Almost seems too much now ! Maybe lower it to 60,000....anyone who's earning less than this who voted Conservative are a fecking mug...fact !
 

Craig the cyclist

Über Member
Al Murray 🙄
What about anyone above 80,000 as in the last Corbyn/Labour manifesto ? Almost seems too much now ! Maybe lower it to 60,000....anyone who's earning less than this who voted Conservative are a fecking mug...fact !
Excellent. Now we are getting somewhere. We know now that anyone on £79,999 or less is poor.

Now we can start to figure out how to help those people.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Excellent. Now we are getting somewhere. We know now that anyone on £79,999 or less is poor.

Now we can start to figure out how to help those people.
Did I say that ? But now you've mentioned it surely the tax collected from those earning 80 k would help the ones lower down....whoops that's not the Tory way is it.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
Did I say that ? But now you've mentioned it surely the tax collected from those earning 80 k would help the ones lower down....whoops that's not the Tory way is it.

Does "help the ones lower down", mean to give them actual cash?, or, would you settle for them (those lower down) contributing less towards the various services and costs of Government (eg, Education, Social Care,.... etc etc) ?
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Does "help the ones lower down", mean to give them actual cash?, or, would you settle for them (those lower down) contributing less towards the various services and costs of Government (eg, Education, Social Care,.... etc etc) ?
I'd settle for them either being decently paid or suitable benefits...wouldn't mind education,social care being properly funded....not happening is it ?
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
I'd settle for them either being decently paid or suitable benefits...wouldn't mind education,social care being properly funded....not happening is it ?

I didn't say it was.

I asked, did you. want the lower paid to be given cash (eg benefits) or simply that they should be called upon to contribute less to the cost of services. You didn't answer.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
I didn't say it was.

I asked, did you. want the lower paid to be given cash (eg benefits) or simply that they should be called upon to contribute less to the cost of services. You didn't answer.
I thought that would go without saying ..both.
 
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