Scandi noir....

[icowden]

The electorate that votes for a neo Nazi party is thick, stupid and most definitely gullible.

Is it though? Famously Hitler won 35% of the vote in a democratic election.

 

[Hitchington]

I'm not sure how my few posts calling people who vote for neo nazi parties racist, stupid, gullible etc. is going to drive more people to vote for neo nazi parties. That's quite a responsibility you're putting on my shoulders.
Unless you all have voted for neo nazi parties in the past, or are now considering it?
Would it help if I said that people who vote for neo nazi parties are thoroughly upstanding members of society who just want the peace and equality for all humankind?

Fascism, neo nazism, far right politics appeals to the worst people in society. It gives simple answers to complex problems and seeks to divide society and make enemies of people who are friends, neighbours, work colleagues and citizens.

Therefore you would have to be racist, stupid or gullible (or a combination of all 3) to even consider voting for a neo nazi party.

I don't represent any political party or movement so if you feel alienated by my opinion then are you considering voting for a neo nazi party?
Consider how that went last time Fascism and nazism were dominant in parts of Europe and prove to me that you're not stupid, racist or gullible.

 

[Hitchington]

Is it though? Famously Hitler won 35% of the vote in a democratic election.

He won 50% of the vote in 1933 when there was only 1 party to vote for.

What does that tell you about the 50% who voted for him?

 

[Unkraut]

Fascism, neo nazism, far right politics appeals to the worst people in society. It gives simple answers to complex problems and seeks to divide society and make enemies of people who are friends, neighbours, work colleagues and citizens.

You could say the same about hard left Socialism.

 

[icowden]

He won 50% of the vote in 1933 when there was only 1 party to vote for.
What does that tell you about the 50% who voted for him?

Not very much. Putin gets a large percentage of the vote in his elections. It's the earlier vote that is more telling, as it shows that Hitler was able to drum up popularity and get a significant number of the population on side. By 1933 he had taken control and it was more "vote for me or else".

 

[Hitchington]

You could say the same about hard left Socialism.

You could say that about any political party/movement. They all promise something different, or better. It does require the electorate to trust in the message and perhaps suspend belief. The stories and myths these political parties present require us the electorate to believe in them.

Socialism promises a fairer and more equal society built on the redistribution of wealth (although some socialist governments have chosen to go down an authoritarian route which is more closely aligned to fascism so one could argue are they really socialist?)

Fascism promises a more ordered society built on the subjection or removal of sections of society which don't conform to the ideals or standards of the ruling elite (see the persecution and mass murder/genocide of Jews, gypsies/Roma, homosexuals, socialists, communists, liberals, Jehovah Witnesses, Slavic people, Armenians etc.)

In the main we embrace socialist ideals (NHS, state education, welfare state...) and reject fascist ideals (racism, homophobia, authoritarianism etc).

So, taking into account what happened to Europe 1933-1945, what kind of people would willingly vote for a neo Nazi party?

 

[Hitchington]

Not very much. Putin gets a large percentage of the vote in his elections. It's the earlier vote that is more telling, as it shows that Hitler was able to drum up popularity and get a significant number of the population on side. By 1933 he had taken control and it was more "vote for me or else".

Interestingly these are the voting percentages between 1932-1933

In November 1933 the Nazi party achieved 92% of the vote, 8 % voted against them. The Nazis were the only option (it was an in favour/against vote). They 100% controlled the Reichstag after having made all other political parties/movements illegal.

In March 1936 it was 98% in favour and in April it was 99% in favour.

It's amazing how popular a fascist dictator can get when every element of the state in controlled by him in a totalitarian regime (see Putin, Xi, Jong un etc.).

But I guess because there had never been a fascist dictator in quite the way Hitler operated, people didn't have a point of reference to make when initially voting for this charismatic, but odious little man. His "blame the Jews" message brought up centuries old anti-Semitic sentiments with some of the electorate who I guess maybe couldn't predict the holocaust which would take place years after.

However you would think the electorate of Sweden, who voted for an openly neo Nazi party, would take some time to use some intelligence, reasoning and historical referencing before voting?

If not one can only surmise that they are stupid, gullible and/or racist.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Therefore you would have to be racist, stupid or gullible (or a combination of all 3) to even consider voting for a neo nazi party.

You missed one out.

All of the above possibly, but also you could see your life changing and someone offering what is a solution to that change. The Nazis in the 30s did not get in to power by calling people thick, stupid and gullible, they pointed out the ills of society that had changed peoples lives, and that other people were calling them thick, stupid and gullible, then neatly stepped in with a solution.

Easy as that, you let the the others do the heavy lifting for you. Just like @Hitchington is demonstrating now.

 

[Hitchington]

You missed one out.

All of the above possibly, but also you could see your life changing and someone offering what is a solution to that change. The Nazis in the 30s did not get in to power by calling people thick, stupid and gullible, they pointed out the ills of society that had changed peoples lives, and that other people were calling them thick, stupid and gullible, then neatly stepped in with a solution.

Easy as that, you let the the others do the heavy lifting for you. Just like @Hitchington is demonstrating now.

Thanks for that, Captian bleedin obvious.

And I'm touched that you think that every single voter in the world will be reading my posts and think "I musts vote for a fascist far right party because Hitchington called me stupid/racist/gullible"

Get a grip Craig.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Thanks for that, Captian bleedin obvious.

And I'm touched that you think that every single voter in the world will be reading my posts and think "I musts vote for a fascist far right party because Hitchington called me stupid/racist/gullible"

Get a grip Craig.

But there are lots of people calling the voters in Sweden 'thick, stupid and gullible', not just you, but you are one of them.

Abusing voters is not the way to win people over to your view point, I am amazed that so many on the left seem to think it is.

**Oh, why have you edited your post I am quoting?

 

[Hitchington]

But there are lots of people calling the voters in Sweden 'thick, stupid and gullible', not just you, but you are one of them.

Abusing voters is not the way to win people over to your view point, I am amazed that so many on the left seem to think it is.

**Oh, why have you edited your post I am quoting?

I am not engaging with or trying to "win over any one" from Sweden who voted for the neo Nazis. My posts are just my opinion read by a dozen or so NACA members.

I'm not sure why you think I'm editing quotes?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I am not engaging with or trying to "win over any one" from Sweden who voted for the neo Nazis. My posts are just my opinion read by a dozen or so NACA members.

I'm not sure why you think I'm editing quotes?

How strange. On the post you made the bottom half does not show up, just the first sentence, but when I quoted it, the whole post is visible!

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I am not engaging with or trying to "win over any one" from Sweden who voted for the neo Nazis. My posts are just my opinion read by a dozen or so NACA members.

I get that you are not important enough to be viewed or taken seriously by a wider worldwide audience.

But it is also how you talk about voters in the UK.

 

[icowden]

And I'm touched that you think that every single voter in the world will be reading my posts and think "I musts vote for a fascist far right party because Hitchington called me stupid/racist/gullible"

I'm not sure that that is the point. The point is that it is easy to get into a mindset that "they" must be stupid / racist / gullible, and it's a slightly dangerous route to travel.

Sure, some of the probably are stupid / racist / gullible, but - a bit like the Brexit referendum, people tend to want to do what they think is best and if they are lied to and made promises that things can be made better, some people will just go for it regardless of common sense. There is a a phenomenon called the Abilene paradox whereby people choose the worst outcome for a group because individually they think it is the best option for everyone else.

People often want something different rather than the status quo.

The only thing that I can't reconcile is that people don't seem to be able to look at *who* is delivering the message / promises and decide whether or not that person is a shyster.

 

[Hitchington]

I get that you are not important enough to be viewed or taken seriously by a wider worldwide audience.

But it is also how you talk about voters in the UK.

Only those stupid or racist enough to vote for a neo Nazi party, or equivalent e.g the National Front or whatever they call themselves these days.