Schooliform

[theclaud]

Can't negative experiences sometime have positive outcomes?

Yes but it's not a reason to prescribe negative experiences.

 

[theclaud]

Hi Aurora

LOL I just thought it was funny.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes but it's not a reason to prescribe negative experiences.

eh?

 

[mudsticks]

That’s a long post that doesn’t explain the rationale for school uniform other than suggesting that it magically prevents riotous behaviour and promotes Oxbridge entry.

Maybe it’s a legacy of my own schooling but I’m not a fan of ineffability.

Anecdotal (as all personal stories are ofc) but we moved my younger son out of his primary as it had gone totally overboard on the 'correct shade of grey' trouser and micro management of everything the kids did -

They even had the bigger kids standing by the door at the end of break pulling up the little kids if their shirts weren't tucked in or whatever, with endless rules about everything.

The whole of their final year was all about prepping for the test for the local(ish) grammar, which was particularly silly given that our local comp is pretty good and provides a well rounded education, academics included.

It was stultifying, and really quite stressful for the more 'sensitive' kids.

When I told other parents the reason for the move to a slightly more 'relaxed' village primary, many of them agreed that it had all gone a bit far in terms of conformity, and rigid rules discipline over everything else
.
But funnily enough none of them were brave enough to say anything about it to the school 'management' itself.

I think (of course being a woolly liberal like I am) that there's a middle way where learning of all sorts, and humanity of all sorts could be better centred in the education system.

(Fwiw both my parents were in education at different levels and took a similar attitude)

I think as someone has mentioned above that the elite / stratified and or private education system in this country has a lot to answer for - even state grammars are pretty much 'private' schools now, as parents pay for extra tuition to get their kids through the tests.


There's a self defeating "Effort in education is for saddos / nerds / elites / or whatever" attitude that's repeated and amplified by certain groups, which plays right into the hands of those who truly are the 'elites' who would rather keep all the true power that's available through education for themselves.

I don't know quite how we get over that, but it needs to happen if we're to get beyond the divisions opening wider in our society.

Strict uniform rules seem like a temporary sticking plaster, and not even necessarily an effective one.

Good luck with that one

Yeah exactly, boring old self defeating cynicism towards trying to improve anything at all in education, is very much part of the underlying problem imo.

 

[theclaud]

eh?

Well, Bolders, I usually do you the credit of assuming that there's some kind of point to what you post, even though you are usually reluctant to say what it is. I made the inference that you were suggesting that something that was experienced by a young person in a negative way was good for them in a way that they necessarily didn't appreciate at the time. There is an alternative reading of the 'it never did me any harm' tendency, of course.

 

[multitool]

Yes but it's not a reason to prescribe negative experiences.

Why should looking smart be viewed as a negative thing?

 

[BoldonLad]

Yeah exactly, boring old self defeating cynicism towards trying to improve anything at all in education, is very much part of the underlying problem imo.

You clearly did not understand my post.

It was "cynicism" (well founded todate), but, not cynicism with respect to improving education.

 

[theclaud]

Why should looking smart be viewed as a negative thing?

It's tit-for-tat Aurora-ing now, is it? I don't think Bolders mentioned smart clothes - just 'school rules'.

 

[theclaud]

They even had the bigger kids standing by the door at the end of break pulling up the little kids if their shirts weren't tucked in or whatever

Jeez.

 

[BoldonLad]

Well, Bolders, I usually do you the credit of assuming that there's some kind of point to what you post, even though you are usually reluctant to say what it is. I made the inference that you were suggesting that something that was experienced by a young person in a negative way was good for them in a way that they necessarily didn't appreciate at the time. There is an alternative reading of the 'it never did me any harm' tendency, of course.

We are drifting away from what I meant.

It was not the "it never did me any harm" syndrome.

I simply meant that if some experiences were regarded as "negative", but, subsequently had "positive" outcomes, why would we avoid encouraging those experiences in young people (or indeed anyone) ?

Perhaps, I miss-understood your intention.

 

[mudsticks]

You clearly did not understand my post.

It was "cynicism" (well founded todate), but, not cynicism with respect to improving education.

Well there wasn't really much to go on, was there, beyond some cheap throwaway cynicism.


I think all too often lazy cynicism is used as a shorthand for "Can't actually be bothered to think about, or act on anything"

Its corrosive, it tries to imply greater experience, or wisdom, or even 'cleverness' but in truth it usually just dispirits any extra effort, deep thinking, or even hope for improvement.

You're free to do you, of course 👍🏼
But I generally find, that when I'm in that kind of mood - just saying nowt is the preferable option,

 

[mudsticks]

Jeez.

I know right..

And still to this day you'll often find him with his shirt tails flying free, in bold defiance.. 🌈

 

[BoldonLad]

It's tit-for-tat Aurora-ing now, is it? I don't think Bolders mentioned smart clothes - just 'school rules'.

You are correct, I didn't specifically mention "smart clothes", or, "school uniform". My use of "school rules" was deliberate, in that, in my view, it includes adherence to the School Uniform policy, but, is not limited to it.

In my uneducated and unqualified opinion, in this thread so far, there appears to be a belief that school uniform is the ONLY button to press to improve and/or raise standards in a school. I tend to think it is simply ONE of the buttons to press to achieve said result.

 

[BoldonLad]

Well there wasn't really much to go on, was there, beyond some cheap throwaway cynicism.


I think all too often lazy cynicism is used as a shorthand for "Can't actually be bothered to think about, or act on anything"

Its corrosive, it tries to imply greater experience, or wisdom, or even 'cleverness' but in truth it usually just dispirits any extra effort, deep thinking, or even hope for improvement.

You're free to do you, of course 👍🏼
But I generally find, that when I'm in that kind of mood - just saying nowt is the preferable option,

Keep digging, you still have not understood what I was being cynical about.

Kettle pot

Eh?

 

[mudsticks]

Keep digging, you still have not understood what I was being cynical about.

Nah you're alright thanks..👍🏼
I got real life 'digging' to get done🌄