bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
Tool channelling @Pale Rider
Starmer's vision quest
- Thread starter mjr
- Start date
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Mr Celine
Well-Known Member
newfhouse
pleb
My only surprise is that the card still claims that Labour is a democratic socialist party.
D
Deleted member 49
Guest
Flagshaggers to the left of me, flagshaggers to the right....
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Don't pretend not to understand.
multitool
Guest
The Crofted Crest
Active Member
It's not just the flag, is it?
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Football famously non violent, non nationalist, non racist, non tribal.
I live in a city with two major teams and the police presence when they play each other is astronomical because they can't have a nice kickabout without the 'fans' trying to beat the shoot out of each other. They close down the city centre pubs because of it. You couldn't have picked a worse example.
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
See by calling it 'my' country you're appealing to a sense of nationalism which I don't have. Our global society has organised itself for the time being into a system of nation states and this is the one in which I happen to have been born.
multitool
Guest
It's not all about you, wimjim
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
You asked me for my opinion about 'my' country's flag. So it is about me.
Even in a wider context, if we're to maintain this illusion of democracy, which I assume the Labour party are in favour of since they put a card through my letterbox the other day, then it should be at least a little bit about me.
Even if we just look at that membership card with it's claims about 'our country', despite my protestations against nationalism I am a citizen of that country so yes, it is about me.
Do you think Labour want my vote? I don't think they do, they're chasing Tory voters. So maybe in that way it's not about me at all. Fair enough, I shan't vote for them.
multitool
Guest
Fair enough, I did ask you for your objection.
But very possibly your rejection of nationality is not a majority view, and on the basis of trying to get a majority it seems sensible for Labour to reclaim from the Tories the notion that it is they who have the interests of the country at heart.
Presumably you are against a government acting in the national interest, seeing as how you reject nationality?
winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
Well obviously I accept that this is the system we're living under and although I think it could do with improving it is a damn sight better than other methods of government we've had throughout the world and throughout history.
It might be nice to think that Labour are reclaiming that notion of having the interests of the country at heart as you put it, but it's not coming across that way to me at all, it's coming across as an attempt to be as nationalist as the Tories. As for the 'national interest', that's a nebulous concept. I'd like the government to act in the interest of the people in the country rather than the country itself, but I'd also like them to act as participants in global society in the interests of all, be that in terms of trade, asylum, peacemaking, environmentalism or what have you.
I get that they need Tory votes, I've mentioned before when discussing election strategy that parties need to appeal to people who didn't vote for them. That's the nature of democracy but I'd like to see that done by offering a credible alternative rather than simply becoming more similar and taking on the same symbolisms. I'm aware this may be wishful thinking and honestly I'd take any Labour government over this Tory government, but I'd like to hope for a bit more.
