Starmer's vision quest

[multitool]

Starmer kicking and screaming as he is dragged into the right side of history.

It'll be a late night for Starmer, I suspect.

 

[Deleted member 49]

It'll be a late night for Starmer, I suspect.

Thoughts and prayers with Keir at this tough time.....fecking coward.

 

[C R]

Thoughts and prayers with Keir at this tough time.....fecking coward.

He'll be all right, the Blair is strong in him.

 

[albion]

The Onion stands with Starmer.
https://www.theonion.com/the-onion-stands-with-israel-because-it-seems-like-yo-1850922505

Meanwhile.
https://www.theonion.com/florida-students-locked-in-decontamination-chamber-afte-1850946012

 

[C R]

Even people who joined Labour because of Starmer have had enough of him.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/oct/30/keir-starmer-labour-israel-gaza

As many of us have said many times, not being the tories is not enough to bring people along.

 

[multitool]

It's a calculated decision, CR.

Until you understand why you should just carry on trying to bash some sense into that head of yours. The Palestine issue is emotive, heated, and ultimately very little to do with Labour.

 

[C R]

It's a calculated decision, CR.

Until you understand why you should just carry on trying to bash some sense into that head of yours. The Palestine issue is emotive, heated, and ultimately very little to do with Labour.

Did you even read what people said?

 

[multitool]

Did you even read what people said?

Yes.

Lots of people say lots of things. It doesn't mean the Labour leadership have to respond like headless chickens.

It's a calculated decision.

 

[winjim]

Imagine being so cynical that you factor in support for genocide as part of a calculated decision in order to get elected. It's a savage indictment of Starmer, our democracy and even, dare I say it without being overly dramatic, our very humanity.

 

[multitool]

Imagine being so cynical that you factor in support for genocide as part of a calculated decision in order to get elected. It's a savage indictment of Starmer, our democracy and even, dare I say it without being overly dramatic, our very humanity.

"Support for genocide"??

I happen to think Israel is attempting to carry out something that falls within some of the accepted definitions of genocide. But nowhere have I seen Labour leadership 'supporting' this.

What I have seen is the leadership acknowledging Israel's right to defend itself within the constraints of the law. I cannot claim much knowledge in what constitutes international law, so I do not know if Israel has transgressed it. I would like to think that they have, but what I like is neither here nor there.

 

[theclaud]

acknowledging Israel's right to defend itself within the constraints of the law

This is just nonsense, though, in the light of what we can all see with our own eyes.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I happen to think Israel is attempting to carry out something that falls within some of the accepted definitions of genocide. But nowhere have I seen Labour leadership 'supporting' this.

Accepted definitions of Genocide ffs....come on Tool were watching it right in front of us.A child killed roughly every 10 minutes for three weeks.Its horrific,surely this is more than about picking sides or votes.
Asking for humanitarian pauses then allowing them to resume the slaughter is barbaric.I really don't know how anyone can try and angle this as defending.

 

[winjim]

"Support for genocide"??

I happen to think Israel is attempting to carry out something that falls within some of the accepted definitions of genocide. But nowhere have I seen Labour leadership 'supporting' this.

What I have seen is the leadership acknowledging Israel's right to defend itself within the constraints of the law. I cannot claim much knowledge in what constitutes international law, so I do not know if Israel has transgressed it. I would like to think that they have, but what I like is neither here nor there.

You'll note that I didn't say Starmer was supporting genocide, I observed that he might be factoring it into his 'calculated decisions'. As it happens I take the position that failing to call for a ceasefire to be support of current Israeli actions. If we're talking about international law then I can't say it's definitely genocide as that has a specific legal definition and also as I linked above, it's debatable whether the right to self defence applies here. If Israel doesn't recognise Palestine as an independent state and Hamas as its legitimate government (and I'm not suggesting that anybody should) then what it's fighting is not a defensive war against an aggressive neighbour, but a counter terrorism operation or counter insurgency.

But back to Starmer, I am now less likely to vote Labour than I was a month ago. Do you think he's factored that into his calculations?

 

[newfhouse]

Do you think he's factored that into his calculations?

I think he has.

 

[multitool]

The fact is if Starmer comes out and expresses the need for ceasefire it will make no difference to whether a ceasefire happens, but it will open up calls for him to explain how Israel can defend itself if it cannot do so militarily.