newfhouse
pleb
I’ll believe it when I see a funding pledge followed by actual funding.
Starmer's vision quest
- Thread starter mjr
- Start date
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I’ll believe it when I see a funding pledge followed by actual funding.
multitool
Guest
No. It isn't. It's about you doing exactly what I said you did.
Because, ten days ago Starmer called for Mone to be expelled from Lords, and called her a 'disgrace'.
Three weeks ago Labour called for the release of all documents relating to the PPE scandal. A day later they won a vote in the House over it.
Ten weeks ago Labour announced they would institute a commissioner to recoup all the defrauded money from covid contracts.
Priorities, you said?
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AndyRM
Elder Goth
They've commissioned Sir David Bell to do their planning... Oh dear. He was a disaster at Sunderland and Reading universities so I can't imagine he'll be any better at this.
qigong chimp
Settler of gobby hash.
I can only envy your and Keith's trinocular vision.
D
Deleted member 49
Guest
multitool
Guest
Seddon has been bitching about Starmer forever. And prior to that he was bitching about Blair who he described as realising he was a "phoney" the first time they met.
11 months ago Seddon said this...
Labour now stands not only to win the next election, but decimate the Tory party.
I think we can safely ignore Seddon and his desperate attempts to stay relevant.
The irony that Seddon is not attacking the PM on Israel, who is after all the only person with power and influence on the international stage, and is instead trying to undermine the opposition leader is not lost on me.
The vanity and and stupidity of Seddon has no bounds.
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D
Deleted member 49
Guest
Seddon....
Another massacre, alongside countless others, alongside the killing of record numbers of UN workers & journalists, and still the US weapons arrive & still the craven Sunak & Starmer refuse to call this out.
multitool
Guest
Fair enough. He mentions Sunak in one tweet, in which he also attacks Starmer, the man with no international platform.
He devotes a whole thread to attacking Starmer. No thread eviscerating the UK govt.
It's a shame Seddon can't read.
Here are Starmer's statements from a week ago
He devotes a whole thread to attacking Starmer. No thread eviscerating the UK govt.
It's a shame Seddon can't read.
Here are Starmer's statements from a week ago
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Deleted member 49
Guest
He's been vocal about Sunak from the start ..
But it's not really the point is it...why would he not expect better of a Labour leader than he would of the Tories.Nothing really surprises me of the Tories,they've been consistently sh1t my whole life.A Labour party I expect better. Parroting the words of Sunak is pathetic,step up and make a stand !
Really what's the point of him going to Estonia and dressing in his Army gear or flying to Paris to meet Macron ?
But it's not really the point is it...why would he not expect better of a Labour leader than he would of the Tories.Nothing really surprises me of the Tories,they've been consistently sh1t my whole life.A Labour party I expect better. Parroting the words of Sunak is pathetic,step up and make a stand !
multitool
Guest
The claim that Biden & Sunak are "all that stands in the way of ending" the war is palpable bõllocks. It assumes the Israelis have no agency, and it forgets that there are still hostages.
The Israelis will do what they want regardless of international opprobrium, and up and until they run out of American weapons. They have called the American's bluff before over the Palestinians. Sunak's influence is negligible. Remind yourself of what the precursors to the 'Israelis' did to the King David Hotel. Likud are the spiritual heirs to the Stern Gang and the Irgun.
Starmer's position is a rational cost-benefit calculation. It all about not presenting an easy target. The cost of an early call for ceasefire would have led to accusations of still being a pro-Hamas, antisemitic party*, and the benefit to either the Labour party electorally, or to the Palestinians on the ground would have been zero.
It is realpolitik, and it's ugly. You are never going to get the imaginary socialist utopia you desire, however hard you try and hope it into reality. That really is just the same sort of bullshît as Johnson's 'boosterism', and the Brexiteer line that if you believe hard enough it will happen.
*yes, those accusations would have been untrue, but that doesn't matter.
The Israelis will do what they want regardless of international opprobrium, and up and until they run out of American weapons. They have called the American's bluff before over the Palestinians. Sunak's influence is negligible. Remind yourself of what the precursors to the 'Israelis' did to the King David Hotel. Likud are the spiritual heirs to the Stern Gang and the Irgun.
Starmer's position is a rational cost-benefit calculation. It all about not presenting an easy target. The cost of an early call for ceasefire would have led to accusations of still being a pro-Hamas, antisemitic party*, and the benefit to either the Labour party electorally, or to the Palestinians on the ground would have been zero.
It is realpolitik, and it's ugly. You are never going to get the imaginary socialist utopia you desire, however hard you try and hope it into reality. That really is just the same sort of bullshît as Johnson's 'boosterism', and the Brexiteer line that if you believe hard enough it will happen.
*yes, those accusations would have been untrue, but that doesn't matter.
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newfhouse
pleb
If it benefits him it doesn’t matter what it costs others?
Your two examples are of a kind of self-serving populism designed to boost support for politicians. I don’t think that’s the same thing as having a robust and principled position on genocide.
multitool
Guest
What are the costs, and to whom are they ascribed? The Palestinians? Are you seriously suggesting that a slightly more emphatic pronouncement from the leader of an opposition party in a rapidly declining former power is going to make a difference??
To the moral fabric of the nation? Possibly, but that has to be factored against the deleterious effects of a further 5 years of Tory, or more likely a smaller than possible majority for Labour in govt.
You've lost me on this. Populism is about offering fantasy answers to misdiagnosed problems. The Tories rode a wave of populism into power. Corbyn tried to, but was just too shît at it, and surfed himself down the plughole, through a cortege of Tories pointing him in its direction. He took the poor with him. Promises and lofty aims are great, but their actual nutritional content is questionable.
I think Starmer has understood what Labour has to do to get into power and to a large extent it's about not allowing a re-run of 2019 and letting the Tories hang themselves. Effective? Yes. Tasty? Not so much.
The genocide thing deserves more analysis than a glib comment. I happen to agree with you that what is happening is an attempt at a genocide (in its loosest definition). I think the Israelis are attempting to bomb the Gazans into an exodus. I think it has been apparent for a month maybe. I viewed this as a likely tactic from the start on the basis that it fits in with Likud's endgame and Nethanyahu's pronouncements in previous decades. However, viewing something as a probability isn't enough for a mainstream politician and likely world statesman to declare it as such, especially given local sensibilities around Jews and anti-semitism, nor after a massacre of 1200 civilians, the taking of 250 hostages, and images of a young woman being dragged from a jeep, her jogging bottoms sodden from blood after being gang-raped.
Personally, I think Starmer has the space now to increase his rhetoric on Gaza (because, after all, rhetoric is all it can ever amount to), but it looks as if his strategy is to focus on the domestic problems of British people and the Tory government's inaction therein, rather than the problems of foreign* people on another continent.
*yes, I used this word deliberately, and in the full knowledge that it is catnip to Adam.
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winjim
Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
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