Starmer's vision quest

[monkers]

12 year old gets gang raped - one man was convicted so enough evidence to prove the rape was verifiable - and your main issues is GM News and 'Well that bit in the hallway doesn't ring true to me ...'

Stories about policemen with three hands always sound a bit dodge to me, though I'm confident you have absolute faith in a report of an unproven allegation.

 

[multitool]

Here's a wall of paedophile gangs...

Ironically, they probably all would want to marry an 8 year old, if given half a chance.

Must be cultural.

 

[monkers]

12 year old gets gang raped - one man was convicted so enough evidence to prove the rape was verifiable - and your main issues is GM News and 'Well that bit in the hallway doesn't ring true to me ...'




Stockport? Do you mean Southport? Quote what I've said on here about Southport. Because otherwise it's you doing your making stuff up thing to denigrate people isn't it? Let's see the quote.

Yes I meant Southport. An easy mistake to make. I remember you being outraged because a woman whose name I no longer remember was given a prison sentence for her part in stirring up the trouble.

Further to your nonsense, I have at no point said that the crimes committed by the abusers is anything less that totally horrific, but the piece that you linked to and was interested in was concerned with the three handed policeman. I responded to you about the content of your post - not also commenting about other stuff is not the crime you imagine it to be.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Sounding more and more like a Tommy Robinson twitter video

These abusers weren't trying to marry 8 year old girls, they were trying to rape teenagers. Raping teenagers is not exclusive to Muslims. White people do it too. So do black people. Does this mean marrying 8 year olds is a norm in our culture?

Again, you're just lumping all sexual assault together and pretending there are no commonalities between the nature of the victims, that of the perpetrators, and how the authorities dealt with the reports, in order to pretend that there were no factors at play.

If we apply the same logic to abuse by priests there was no point having those inquiries either I guess. No point looking at whether the Church could have prevented it, whether cultural factors were involved, whether the Church covered it up. It's all just abuse, nothing special about it ...

In fact, really what's the point of Criminology altogether if there is nothing meaningful to be found in an analysis of the relationship between victims and offenders? Could be a lot on money saved if we get rid of those gang crime units etc.

 

[multitool]

Tell me what the difference is between the grooming and sex abuse crimes carried out by Pakistani origin men and these people:

Or is it just the colour of their skin?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Here's a wall of paedophile gangs...

View attachment 7094


Ironically, they probably all would want to marry an 8 year old, if given half a chance.

Must be cultural.

Were their crimes reported to the police and ignored? Did the police arrest victims fathers when they went to retrieve their daughters? Were any of the girls arrested for being drunk whilst their abusers weren't challenged?

What was the time lapse between the crimes being reported and charges? Because if there's no institutional failings then it's a false equivalency.

 

[multitool]

Again, you're just lumping all sexual assault together and pretending there are no commonalities between the nature of the victims, that of the perpetrators, and how the authorities dealt with the reports, in order to pretend that there were no factors at play.

If we apply the same logic to abuse by priests there was no point having those inquiries either I guess. No point looking at whether the Church could have prevented it, whether cultural factors were involved, whether the Church covered it up. It's all just abuse, nothing special about it ...

In fact, really what's the point of Criminology altogether if there is nothing meaningful to be found in an analysis of the relationship between victims and offenders? Could be a lot on money saved if we get rid of those gang crime units etc.

This is so dishonest.

The issue is around how the crimes of these particular groups were dealt with by the relevant institutions and whether they were dealt with as effectively as they should have been, or as effectively as if the perps were white. It is nothing to do with the motivations of the perpetrators.

You are spinning institutional failure as demonstrating that Pakistanis are more likely to be sex abusers.

This is EXACTLY what Tommy Robinson and his fellow far right racists are doing.

 

[multitool]

Were their crimes reported to the police and ignored? Did the police arrest victims fathers when they went to retrieve their daughters? Were any of the girls arrested for being drunk whilst their abusers weren't challenged?

What was the time lapse between the crimes being reported and charges? Because if there's no institutional failings then it's a false equivalency.

QED

 

[AuroraSaab]

Tell me what the difference is between the grooming and sex abuse crimes carried out by Pakistani origin men and these people:

View attachment 7095


Or is it just the colour of their skin?

Did the police and social services ignore the rape complaints again and again? Did the police and council tell those who raised concerns - like police officer Maggie Oliver had in Manchester - that there were cultural sensitivities that had to be taken into account? Were any whistle blowing complaints not followed up, like in Rotherham, because "... in the words of Denis MacShane, the former Labour MP for Rotherham, where over 1,400 girls were estimated to have been raped or assaulted. When asked why he turned a blind eye to these horrors in his constituency, he said sheepishly, 'I didn't want to rock the multi-cultural boat.'?"

If not, yours examples are a false equivalency.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...e-girls-sacrificed-political-correctness.html

 

[multitool]

Nope, I'm not going to let you get away with your usual party trick of diverting the debate.

You were making exactly the same claim as well known far-right agitator, Tommy Robinson, that Pakistani origin men are more likely to be abusers because of their culture. You quite literally used those exact terms.

I've pointed out to you that white paedo gangs are grooming and raping young children. In fact whites are slightly more likely to engage in CSE than Pakistanis. This shows that your claims are a lie (and arguably racist).

It is no surprise that you are now furiously back-pedalling and trying to divert the debate onto the response to these crimes by institutions which clearly has nothing to do with the "cultural" propensity of people to commit crimes.

You've been caught out.

 

[monkers]

Did the police and social services ignore the rape complaints again and again? Did the police and council tell those who raised concerns - like police officer Maggie Oliver had in Manchester - that there were cultural sensitivities that had to be taken into account? Were any whistle blowing complaints not followed up, like in Rotherham, because "... in the words of Denis MacShane, the former Labour MP for Rotherham, where over 1,400 girls were estimated to have been raped or assaulted. When asked why he turned a blind eye to these horrors in his constituency, he said sheepishly, 'I didn't want to rock the multi-cultural boat.'?"

If not, yours examples are a false equivalency.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...e-girls-sacrificed-political-correctness.html

You care about the commonalities of the victims being white and working class. I don't. I don't care about their skin colour or the class of their families. They were all vulnerable and unprotected children, that was their commonality.

Neither do I care about the racial characteristics of the perpetrators. To me they were all men mostly with occupations that put them on the streets at night with periods of non-productivity. Cab drivers and fast food deliverers sitting about in cars with periods of no work without being questioned by police for doing so.

It is unnecessary to make this a race issue - that is unless you are a racist.

 

[multitool]

I wonder what other views Aurora shares with the far-right

That gateway drug was heady. Don't say we didn't try and warn you.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You were making exactly the same claim as well known far-right agitator, Tommy Robinson, that Pakistani origin men are more likely to be abusers because of their culture. You quite literally used those exact terms.

It's not racist to say there are cultural factors involved. Nor is it racist to say there were institutional failings due to worries about multicultural issues.

To say these things can never be examined is to abandon safeguarding whenever difficult factors are involved. You wouldn't suggest we shouldn't investigate abuse in the Church because it's prejudice against Catholics to see if religious attitudes were a contributory factor, or deem it racist to look at cultural factors in other issues like school attendance or forced marriages.

I've pointed out to you that white paedo gangs are grooming and raping young children. In fact whites are slightly more likely to engage in CSE than Pakistanis. This shows that your claims are a lie (and arguably racist).

Slightly more? If Pakistanis are only 2.7% of the UK population and whites are 82% you'd think it would be gigantically more. You're admitting there that Pakistanis are massively over represented in sexual abuse stats.

It is no surprise that you are now furiously back-pedalling and trying to divert the debate onto the response to these crimes by institutions which clearly has nothing to do with the "cultural" propensity of people to commit crimes.

You've been caught out.

And you're happily dismissing a national scandal because you'd rather call it all racist and use it as a stick to beat the right wing with than admit any cultural contribution or even institutional failings that were affected those factors.

 

[monkers]

I wonder what other views Aurora shares with the far-right

That gateway drug was heady. Don't say we didn't try and warn you.

Just to think about two separate events that have occurred in hotels in or around Brighton.

You Aurora spoke about your outrage that trans activists had disrupted a GC meeting in Brighton by banging on the windows. In fact they banged on the downstairs windows where the GCs were drinking before the meeting which was held upstairs. I know because I was inside the hotel that evening.

You Aurora on the other hand have said nothing about 136 children that were kidnapped from another hotel in Brighton and by reports I have seen those children have not been seen again. Could it be that because these children are not white working class girls, that they are not worth as much as a mention.

The sum of your posting Aurora and the record here of it serves to show your political allegiance.

I await the usual attack dog responses or 'you obviously don't care about women and girls', along with your observation about how patronising I am, and that because I don't agree with you I must be a man or a trans woman or a Pakistani paedophile or something.

 

[monkers]

It's not racist to say there are cultural factors involved. Nor is it racist to say there were institutional failings due to worries about multicultural issues.

To say these things can never be examined is to abandon safeguarding whenever difficult factors are involved. You wouldn't suggest we shouldn't investigate abuse in the Church because it's prejudice against Catholics to see if religious attitudes were a contributory factor, or deem it racist to look at cultural factors in other issues like school attendance or forced marriages.


Slightly more? If Pakistanis are only 2.7% of the UK population and whites are 82% you'd think it would be gigantically more. You're admitting there that Pakistanis are massively over represented in sexual abuse stats.




And you're happily dismissing a national scandal because you'd rather call it all racist and use it as a stick to beat the right wing with than admit any cultural contribution or even institutional failings that were affected those factors.

What you are engaging in is shy fascism.