Starmer's vision quest

[multitool]

He's denying that there was cultural element to both the committing of these offences,

There are 1.6 million Pakistani origin people in UK. We can safely assume half are male, and therefore hundreds of thousands will be men

The grooming incidents concern at most a hundred or so.

How can this be "cultural" if the % of offenders matches exactly the % of white British paedophiles.

Exploitation of children is not cultural.

How are victims further damaged by having their experiences heard by more people, even if it's Elon Musk doing the broadcasting?

They are if they become the unwilling pawns in a game of far-right chess.

If you're unwilling to investigate the problem and confront it you aren't going to solve the problem.

It has been investigated. You can't fully solve every problem in life. There are recommendations for how to do better.

 

[monkers]

Aurora

I now see that you have added to your post in very large letters a tale about a police officer who seems to have at least three hands.

You seem easily persuaded by this level of journalism.

And then for cheapness you add, 'move along nothing to see here'.

You could have noted this line ...

However, the report says that the parents disputed the claims of force made by the survivor.

... but you chose not to.

 

[AuroraSaab]

There are 1.6 million Pakistani origin people in UK. We can safely assume half are male, and therefore hundreds of thousands will be men

It's pro rata though. Are they as a group over represented in grooming gang prosecutions? Pakistani heritage people are 2.7% of the UK population. They represent more than 2.7% of grooming gang prosecutions.

Also we are specifically talking about organised grooming/rape gangs and whether they were allowed to act unchecked, not general child sexual abuse which exists across all social groups regardless of class, race, religion.

The grooming incidents concern at most a hundred or so.

The Grooming Gangs task force arrested 550 men in 2023 alone.

How can this be "cultural" if the % of offenders matches exactly the % of white British paedophiles.

These are different offences. Individuals acting alone are one type of offenders, groups of men acting together in a grooming process are another. The issue is not just the nature of the offending but whether it was facilitated by institutional, and individual, failings.

Exploitation of children is not cultural.

Some child exploitation things are. Child marriage isn't cultural at all? Attitudes to women and girls aren't shaped at all by cultural factors?

 

[multitool]

It's Child Sexual Exploitation. I'm not sure why there is a need to racialise it. Surely cherry picking data is the essence of racism.

According to the Ministry of Justice and the ONS 88% of defendants prosecuted for child sexual abuse offences in England and Wales in 2022 were white, slightly higher than their representation in the  general population (83%) South Asian defendants accounted for 7% of those proceeded against, slightly lower than their 9% representation in the general population. Black defendants made up 3% of those proceeded against, compared to their 4% representation in the general population.

 

[multitool]

The Grooming Gangs task force arrested 550 men in 2023 alone.

We don't know the ethnicity of those arrested. We don't know if they are guilty, and the "in 2023 alone" bit is disingenuous because we have no idea when the suspected crimes for which they were arrested took place

 

[monkers]

A generous budget for every one of those services would have not prevented these crimes.

This is true. However we do know that the numbers of children with a mental illness is increasing, as is the number of children not attending school, those who with their families are now homeless, and the number of children going hungry.

It doesn't just take money though, it takes political willpower.

Boris Johnson declared that money spent on child abuse investigations was “spaffed up a wall” during an LBC radio phone-in from 2019, shortly before he took over from Theresa May as PM.


He said: “And one comment I would make is I think an awful lot of money and an awful lot of police time now goes into these historic offences and all this malarkey.

“You know, £60 million I saw was being spaffed up a wall on some investigation into historic child abuse and all this kind of thing. What on earth is that going to do to protect the public now?”

 

[AuroraSaab]

It's Child Sexual Exploitation. I'm not sure why there is a need to racialise it. Surely cherry picking data is the essence of racism.

We are talking about a specific type of offence - grooming for rape purposes - and whether the scale of this type of offence was ignored or down played for cultural and political reasons, of which ethnicity may have been one.

If you are going to lump it together with all other types of individual sex offending then you might as well say there was no point in investigating abuse in the Catholic Church, or in care homes either - it's all just general sexual abuse and nothing can be learned about the failings of those institutions by treating the offences as distinct from other offending.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Aurora

I now see that you have added to your post in very large letters a tale about a police officer who seems to have at least three hands.

You seem easily persuaded by this level of journalism.

And then for cheapness you add, 'move along nothing to see here'.

You could have noted this line ...



... but you chose not to.

And you could have not been disingenuous by suggesting that her story isn't true when her parents confirmed it, disagreeing only on the forced part - which they weren't present at as according to the filmed interview it took place in the hall with only the girl and the male officer present.

How weird that your main concern is to moan about it being GM News in an account from a victim raped by multiple men at the age of 12 and clearly failed by the police, who, amongst other things, had no business turning up at her house to tell her to take the morning after pill.

Her main assailant got 6 years, was out in 3. One rape accused absconded after the judge gave him his passport back, the others were unable to be traced. Still, GM News eh.

 

[the snail]

....

Some child exploitation things are. Child marriage isn't cultural at all? Attitudes to women and girls aren't shaped at all by cultural factors?

Like all sex abusers, they target victims that are vulnerable and available. If you really think there is anything new about men grooming young girls, abusing them with their fellow abusers, then you are naive at best, and have been groomed by your neonazi chums. This whole narrative is driven by racism. You can use as big a font as you like, but it doesn't alter the fact that far right groups are actively exploiting abuse victims for their political agenda, and chumps like you lap it up, because it reinforces your own prejudices.

 

[monkers]

View attachment 7092

And you could have not been disingenuous by suggesting that her story isn't true when her parents confirmed it, disagreeing only on the forced part - which they weren't present at as according to the filmed interview it took place in the hall with only the girl and the male officer present.

View attachment 7093

How weird that your main concern is to moan about it being GM News in an account from a victim raped by multiple men at the age of 12 and clearly failed by the police, who, amongst other things, had no business turning up at her house to tell her to take the morning after pill.

Her main assailant got 6 years, was out in 3. One rape accused absconded after the judge gave him his passport back, the others were unable to be traced. Still, GM News eh.

My word, you do love to shout don't you!

My point about GB News is that it is notorious for being a platform for the further right, and you are either susceptible to its deceit or just a sucker for a panic.

I have no doubt that there are police officers who are heavy handed. I'm frankly amazed that you fall for an invention though that he held her wrist with one hand, pinched her cheeks with his second hand, and popped the pill into her mouth with his third.

The atrocities stand on their own as being events too awful for any words, yet you still seek to quote exaggerations.

It is true that an allegation and complaint have been made against the officer. On the point of force made by you in big letters, this is denied by the parents who are reported to have been present in the house, and as far as I know, the case has not been proven against the officer.

I feel sure if the allegation was proven, you'd have been thorough enough to say so.


Despite what you say, my main point remains about necessary resources. Due to crisis in mental health care, and the shortage of social workers, the police find themselves in the unenviable position of dealing with these issues along with actual police duties, where they have also faced large cuts in resources over the years. That is not a defence of any police officers who act unprofessionally, but you are again providing instances which are potentially outliers.

Are you saying this behaviour was typical of all police officers?

I'm seeing the problems that you are not; against their population size, a relatively small number (yes one is one too many) a whole demographic of people is demonised by those who hold negative views and seek to propagate hatred against all with that common characteristic. And then there are those who willfully turn out to fight the police for protecting the innocent.

To read your somewhat twisted interpretations of the facts here, and what you have previously had to say about the Stockport troubles, I have to put you in the same camp as Tommy Robinson.

 

[multitool]

Proof perhaps that the far-right recruiting tactics of using trans issues actually works