Starmer's vision quest

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the snail

Active Member
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It must be very difficult for the survivors of this epidemic of rape, violence, and abuse, to now have their motives questioned.

What epidemic? Do you really think this is anything new? I don't know if you are a far-right tommy twonames fan, but you do seem to parrot a lot of their tropes, in particular the racist claims about muslim grooming gangs. This just plain nonsense. There is no evidence that rape and sexual abuse is committed by any racial/religious group. This sort of behaviour has been going on forever. Young people in care and other vulnerable groups have always been targeted. No one is questioning the motives of the victims, rather those of the far right, who are using victims to further their racist agenda, often further damaging them in the process. Personally I would rather see effective action to protect vulnerable people and prosecute offenders, rather than yet another timewasting report to sit on the shelf gathering dust.
 
It was only a matter of time before somebody on here denied it was even happening. Get your Likes in early, lads.
 

C R

Veteran
It was only a matter of time before somebody on here denied it was even happening. Get your Likes in early, lads.

He did the opposite of denying it. He pointed out that it isn't an epidemic. Epidemic refers to something that starts suddenly, that kind of abuse of marginalised children has not started suddenly, it has been happening continuously. The only reason Yaxley-Lennon, Farage or Musk care about it is because it gives them a way to stoke racial tension under the guise of concern for vulnerable children. Neither of them actually give a flying fück about the victims.
 
..... racist claims about muslim grooming gangs. This just plain nonsense. There is no evidence that rape and sexual abuse is committed by any racial/religious group.
He's denying that there was cultural element to both the committing of these offences, and presumably therefore the resulting failure of authorities to act. We aren't talking about sex offences in general but a particular pattern of offending that was known about but allowed to continue unchecked for years.

No one is questioning the motives of the victims, rather those of the far right, who are using victims to further their racist agenda, often further damaging them in the process.
How are victims further damaged by having their experiences heard by more people, even if it's Elon Musk doing the broadcasting?


Personally I would rather see effective action to protect vulnerable people and prosecute offenders, rather than yet another timewasting report to sit on the shelf gathering dust.

If you're unwilling to investigate the problem and confront it you aren't going to solve the problem.
 

Ian H

Legendary Member
He's denying that there was cultural element to both the committing of these offences, and presumably therefore the resulting failure of authorities to act. We aren't talking about sex offences in general but a particular pattern of offending that was known about but allowed to continue unchecked for years.


How are victims further damaged by having their experiences heard by more people, even if it's Elon Musk doing the broadcasting?




If you're unwilling to investigate the problem and confront it you aren't going to solve the problem.

It's been investigated. What's required is the findings to be acted upon.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
Something that has been known over the years is that the most vulnerable children are particularly vulnerable when they are on the streets, and more so in the late evening / early hours. They are of course vulnerable to men who are around on the streets at that same time.

Therefore I will argue that the real cohort of men in the consideration are those who come into contact with vulnerable girls at that time especially if their work brings them into contact. It is always motive and opportunity that drives crime.

Those men with the most opportunity are those in lower paid night work, those working in fast food joints and mini-cab drivers. These are the types of work that can very often be taken up by those who as a demographic find the most difficulty finding well-paid work in the UK, ie people from Pakistan, Bangladesh, and some black ethnic groups.

It is interesting to see that mini-cab drivers that have been particularly known to be involved in a range of offences related to drug supply, child sexual abuses, etc are not identified as the target group of men. Mini cab drivers come from a range of ethnicities, including white men.

It is rather more convenient for those with a political agenda of some sort to point the finger at Pakistani men rather than those with the greatest opportunity.

And I will say this out loud to any audience; the claims made by Braverman, Badenoch et al against Pakistani men are for these reasons are essentially racist in their nature.

It was on the Conservatives watch that the opportunities for child sex offenders rose with the long lasting cuts to public services including mental health services, social workers police officers, police station numbers, courts, prison officers, prison accommodation, probation officers, etc. Specialist services were most at risk during austerity due to the higher costs associated with them.
 
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C R

Veteran
Something that has been known over the years is that the most vulnerable children are particularly vulnerable when they are on the streets, and more so in the late evening / early hours. They are of course vulnerable to men who are around on the streets at that same time.

Therefore I will argue that the real cohort of men in the consideration are those who come into contact with vulnerable girls at that time especially if their work brings them into contact. It is always motive and opportunity that drives crime.

Those men with the most opportunity are those in lower paid night work, those working in fast food joints and mini-cab drivers. These are the types of work that can very often be taken up by those who as a demographic find the most difficulty finding well-paid work in the UK, ie people from Pakistan, Bangladesh, and some black ethnic groups.

It is interesting to see that mini-cab drivers that have been particularly known to be involved in a range of offences related to drug supply, child sexual abuses etc are not identified as the target group of men. Mini cab drivers come from a range of ethnicities, including white men.

It is rather more convenient for those with a political agenda of some sort to point the finger at Pakistani men rather than those with the greatest opportunity.

And I will say this out loud to any audience; the claims made by Braverman, Badenoch et al against Pakistani men are for these reasons are essentially racist in their nature.

It was on the Conservatives watch that the opportunities for child sex offenders rose with the long lasting cuts to public services including mental health services, social workers police officers, police station numbers, courts, prison officers, prison accommodation, probation officers, etc. Specialist services were most at risk during austerity due to the higher costs associated with them.

Bah, facts, you can prove anything with facts.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
Bit of an unhinged diatribe against a very smart and prematurely deceased journalist who spent most of her time writing about the housing crisis, Grenfell, and cycling. Perhaps you are Toby Young, then?

"Unhinged diatribe"? It was a single sentence :laugh:

What does her death have to do with anything?
 

matticus

Guru
 
Therefore I will argue that the real cohort of men in the consideration are those who come into contact with vulnerable girls at that time especially if their work brings them into contact. It is always motive and opportunity that drives crime.
Plenty of white and non white men work in the fast food and taxi industries. They seem under represented in the prosecutions. Also there has been no suggestion that police/council action against that cohort was affected by the cultural sensitivities in the way that it was regarding men of Pakistani heritage.

It is rather more convenient for those with a political agenda of some sort to point the finger at Pakistani men rather than those with the greatest opportunity.

You would have to be wilfully blind to pretend there is no cultural aspect to the nature and scale of these offences.

It was on the Conservatives watch that the opportunities for child sex offenders rose with the long lasting cuts to public services including mental health services, social workers police officers, police station numbers, courts, prison officers, prison accommodation, probation officers, etc.
A generous budget for every one of those services would have not prevented these crimes. They continued because they were ignored by police and social services; ignored by individuals and facilitated by an offialdom that dismissed them because white working class girls mattered less than cultural sensitivities.

Some of these girls were raped from 11 and 12 years old. It wasn't because there weren't enough police or social workers. The police and social services knew.

https://www.gbnews.com/news/groomin...-contraception-pill-greater-manchester-oldham

This is a 12 year old who reported her assault to a crisis centre and the police.

Screenshot_20250110_124202_Chrome.jpg


Move along, nothing to see here.
 
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monkers

Legendary Member
Plenty of white and non white men work in the fast food and taxi industries. They seem under represented in the prosecutions. Also there has been no suggestion that police/council action against that cohort was affected by the cultural sensitivities in the way that it was regarding men of Pakistani heritage.

The number of Pakistani men remains unknown. Many of the police reports stated origin as 'Asian'. Did they mean Russians? I think not but you hopefully will follow my point.

I think we agree that white folk can sometimes receive more favourable treatment through the policing and justice system than others.

I have a question though over your use of 'cultural sensitivities'. I sees some ambiguity here. Even Starmer has been quoted using the phrase ''political correctness'' in relation to this. So is it the case that men from ethnic communities were not prosecuted through fear of some kind of protest or reprise from their communities, or were they fearful that incitement from the likes of Robinson would start the rioting that was brought about in Stockport? What did you have in mind?
 
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monkers

Legendary Member
You would have to be wilfully blind to pretend there is no cultural aspect to the nature and scale of these offences.

Not really. The one thing follows the other. The cultural aspect is that data shows that some ethnic groups have more difficulty finding work. They take the jobs that are most readily available, such as cab driving.

To convince me otherwise, you'd need to show that Pakistani men rejected other better paid work in favour of unpredictable earnings from cab driving, this in order to have the opportunities to victimise children.

To take action, it would not be proper to start monitoring all Pakistani men (and other Asian men) in the evenings, but it would be proper to bring in extra measures to monitor cab drivers. Austerity has much to answer for.
 
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matticus

Guru
As some wag posted a few weeks ago:
"Say what you like about immigrants - but at least you can now get a cab on Christmas Day"
 

monkers

Legendary Member
A generous budget for every one of those services would have not prevented these crimes. They continued because they were ignored by police and social services; ignored by individuals and facilitated by an offialdom that dismissed them because white working class girls mattered less than cultural sensitivities.

Some of these girls were raped from 11 and 12 years old. It wasn't because there weren't enough police or social workers. The police and social services knew.

https://www.gbnews.com/news/groomin...-contraception-pill-greater-manchester-oldham


I made the mistake of opening the link you provided.

At one point the claim is that she was forced to take the pill by a police officer. Later it was revealed that her parents were there. Then it is revealed that she didn't take the pill at all.

The truly horrendous sets of circumstances are not helped by the likes of GB News with their own political agenda.

I also understand the point that austerity meant that specialist services were often the most frequently cut due to the expense. This point was made in my post.

Should it have been the case that the an appropriately qualified specialist officer was not on shift at that time, I can then understand the decision to ask the victim to wait until an appropriate person was available. This would be a direct result of austerity.

This is not me defending that actions or attitudes of individual police officers; this is me saying that without resources appropriate services can not result.
 
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