Starmer's vision quest

[AuroraSaab]

Not original: synthesised from millions of illegally- and immorally- copied artworks.

AI is going to be mostly used to rip off the hard work of others, whether it's plagiarism in college essays or art work.

I find that although AI art can look very real, you can usually find a few tiny discrepancies in the background that give the game away.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

AI is going to be mostly used to rip off the hard work of others, whether it's plagiarism in college essays or art work.

I find that although AI art can look very real, you can usually find a few tiny discrepancies in the background that give the game away.

View attachment 7117

Well, you've got to hand it to her; that young woman is putting her best foot forward!

 

[icowden]

Not original: synthesised from millions of illegally- and immorally- copied artworks.

That bit is up for some debate. It is arguable that if you sat down and drew a picture or wrote a song, that what you created would be synthesised from all of the pictures and all of the music that you have heard.

I can't speak for art but whenever you write a piece of music you can always identify influences if you look hard enough. There will always be a bit that sounds like "x". Your piece is unique but can't help being the result of your learning.

AI Bots learn by looking at millions of pictures, not copying them, although because of their vast memory and architecture they may replicate parts of existing works. What they lack at the moment is complex understanding - hence they are very bad at drawing.

 

[monkers]

Remind me: did you think the air fuel duty answer was correct? Not an obsolete estimate from a lobbying group?

Basically, any answer from an LLM AI should be checked, so you might as well look it up in the first place and not waste resources on AI, or condone its illegal acts with copyright materials.

A figure that is given as an estimate can never be taken as an accurate figure regardless of the source.

At the time I was trying to see if the estimates around abolishing fuel subsidy on aviation fuel and applying VAT on air travel would align with an estimate for the cost of free second class UK train travel. It turns out that the estimates provided were close at something like £11 billion. That can not take into account the unexpected such as the reduction in air travel and uptake in rail travel that might be subsequent.

If say, I was a relevant Minister with an interest in developing such a policy, I'd have a decent enough springboard to take the matter further rather than unwittingly waste a lot my time or civil service time.

It seems that people are using the opportunity of taking me to task on something I've never claimed. Why is that?

 

[monkers]

That bit is up for some debate. It is arguable that if you sat down and drew a picture or wrote a song, that what you created would be synthesised from all of the pictures and all of the music that you have heard.

I can't speak for art but whenever you write a piece of music you can always identify influences if you look hard enough. There will always be a bit that sounds like "x". Your piece is unique but can't help being the result of your learning.

AI Bots learn by looking at millions of pictures, not copying them, although because of their vast memory and architecture they may replicate parts of existing works. What they lack at the moment is complex understanding - hence they are very bad at drawing.

That's a wrongly attributed quote to me, I didn't say that.

 

[Psamathe]

looking at potholes they fixed locally and the quality of the road surfaces they have replaced a couple of years ago compared to similar situations in the Netherlands in a city(dutch) that's littaly build on a swamp and there prone to the ground sinking, i would argue the problem is not only about fixing potholes but about the quality of the road surface. as they seem to do that better in the Netherlands

Bit off-topic but several years ago I was chatting to a group of Highways contractors (Kier staff) who were surface dressing a rural single track road and I was commenting about how it wouldn't last long before potholes ... and their response was that the surface dressing they were doing was a complete waste of time & money as it wasn't so much a "road" as a dirt track with some tarmac spread on top, no foundation underneath. But they were happy, kept them in work and profitable business.

And within the month I was reporting potholes in the newly surface dressed road.

Ian

 

[mjr]

A figure that is given as an estimate can never be taken as an accurate figure regardless of the source.

OK, so what AI output did you praise as accurate? Would it be the Dyson tax calculation that you mentioned and avoided posting when previously requested, for example?

It seems that people are using the opportunity of taking me to task on something I've never claimed. Why is that?

Because your posts are highly misleading and any example you give of factually-accurate AI responses does not stand up to scrutiny.

I think you're getting some AI to write your spin-filled posts. Enough. You've more than amply demonstrated how AI can destroy forum discussions. Maybe it will destroy political discourse the same way. Maybe it already is.

 

[icowden]

That's a wrongly attributed quote to me, I didn't say that.

Apols - not sure how that happened should have been a reply to @mjr

 

[icowden]

condone its illegal acts with copyright materials.

Should we ban you from reading things? Presumably you are reading things that are copyright? If not, why is an AI reading things different to you reading things? Sounds a bit discriminatory to me. Should AIs be included in eqalities legislation? Surely artificial brains have rights too?

 

[monkers]

OK, so what AI output did you praise as accurate? Would it be the Dyson tax calculation that you mentioned and avoided posting when previously requested, for example?


Because your posts are highly misleading and any example you give of factually-accurate AI responses does not stand up to scrutiny.

I think you're getting some AI to write your spin-filled posts. Enough. You've more than amply demonstrated how AI can destroy forum discussions. Maybe it will destroy political discourse the same way. Maybe it already is.

Oh piss off. I did reply to the Dyson equation thing. Whether you liked the reply that Co-pilot gave or not I couldn't give a flying fig.

At no point have I advanced the idea that AI is a universal tool. My position on it feels balanced, it has its uses and it has its failures.

My position remains the same, if I want a quick image to produce an avatar, then its ability to generate something usable from a brief description in a matter of a few seconds is impressive. If it farks up then just point out the errors and it tries again.

Frankly I'm getting pissed off with this willful misrepresentation of what I've written. Just try to behave like the adult you are.

 

[mjr]

Should we ban you from reading things?

It's not only reading things. It's remixing things. It's that which is the problem. I'm "banned" from that in general by law. Why should people be allowed to use AI to break laws and compete unfairly with humans?

 

[mjr]

Oh piss off. I did reply to the Dyson equation thing. Whether you liked the reply that Co-pilot gave or not I couldn't give a flying fig.

Exactly. You've no interest whether the reply is correct or not. You only care that it looks plausible, not whether it's an answer, much less whether it's an accurate one.

Does anyone feel like https://ncap.cyclechat.net/threads/starmers-vision-quest.32/post-107830 shows "how much extra tax James Dyson will pay as a result of Labour's changes to CGT"? It's just spinning for all its worth and babbling about irrelevant things, like a pathetic politician caught in Paxman's crosshairs.

At no point have I advanced the idea that AI is a universal tool. My position on it feels balanced, it has its uses and it has its failures.

Feeling for balance is a very poor substitute for actually assessing the truth of something. When told by something untrustworthy that it's raining, the answer is to look outside, not to find balance. AI's uses are niche and the failures are many and egregious.

Frankly I'm getting pissed off with this willful misrepresentation of what I've written. Just try to behave like the adult you are.

No, you're getting pissed off with the misrepresentations you're generating with AI being challenged for accuracy. You should try behaving like an adult, too: write your own damn posts.

 

[monkers]

No, you're getting pissed off with the misrepresentations you're generating with AI being challenged for accuracy. You should try behaving like an adult, too: write your own damn posts.

Where I have used AI, I have said so. In the examples I have used, I placed my questions to it in quote marks and the replies in using the quote method here. If you think that my posts are all AI without stating so, then there are greater errors with you than with AI.

I was asked by another poster to post here what its response to the Dyson Calculation for them to see. I did so and posted that. Now you can criticise the AI reply to that all you like. I'm not responsible for its accuracy, and frankly I don't care, if it's is wrong then show where it is wrong if you care. It's almost as if Google search is perfect. Inevitably anything that reads from the internet, whether human or bot is going to read a load of crap along with truthful text.

I have been able to use AI to find some things that I struggled to find with Google. When this happens I quite reasonably chalk this up as a success. On the other hand I have laughed at it for the inaccuracies in the images it has created. It was me that laughed at the image of Theresa May having three fingers on her right hand.

My point all along, which seems oblivious to you because you just have something about you that wants to be pedantic, is that co-pilot seems less crap than others I've tried.

Try understanding what I keep repeating as ''less crap'' and stop thinking that by that I mean ''outstanding''. Stand down.

 

[multitool]

True but is it the "saviour of aour failing economy" that it's being presented as?

Strange how day after bond interest hits high and £ a low (meaning worse austerity and/or tax rises) suddenly ... oh look at this shiny new thing that's going to create the growth we need so we can all live like kings.

Distraction intended to cause us to look away from the bad stuff.

Ian

Isn't that just what 'messaging' is though?

The one obvious criticism of the first 8 months of this govt is their failure to get the messaging right. It's not an easy task because people now have an inbuilt cynicism towards the political institutions. Nor is Starmer equipped with the oratorical skills of, for example, Blair.

 

[monkers]

And to hope to demonstrate one example of it being less crap I pasted Aurora's humorous AI failure into co-pilot and asked it what is wrong with the image ...

I took a look at the image and noticed something peculiar: the person is holding a tray with a latte on it, but instead of hands, there are feet placed on the tray. This is definitely not a photographic failure but appears to be an intentional edit for humorous or artistic effect.