Starmer's vision quest

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BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
I thought the "Kranky" had a basis in her coming across as being a bit crabbit in interviews. Which is entirely understandable considering she was one of the finest politicians going yet routinely ridiculed for being short and female. To be honest I reckon behind closed doors she thought the Krankie thing was vaguely amusing at first but not for long.

It's a shame how things ended for her as leader, but I'm seriously impressed with her efforts and grateful for them.

I did say elsewhere (and way before this thread) that I admired her 🙂
 

Xipe Totec

Something nasty in the woodshed
I thought the "Kranky" had a basis in her coming across as being a bit crabbit in interviews.
Which is why both blue & red Scottish Tory critics seem more likely to refer to her as 'Wee Nippy'. I've always thought the Jimmy Krankie line was more of a UK right-wing/unionist media thing.
 

matticus

Guru
- C R said:
- She is, but that doesn't make far right misogynistic taunting acceptable.

Over the last few days I've had to conclude she's a "Climate Change Denier".

I've read quite a few articles from reliable sources from those who actually know about Climate (eg in "The Conversation") and none come anywhere near her claims about Heathrow's Climate impacts. She's throwing out these claims not even accepted by her own Government and without any evidence, expecting us to blindly believe her.

How TF does that justify misogynisitic slurs??

You're sounding like a silly old <slur redacted> ranting about anyone and everyone they disagree with.

(and I say that as someone happy to challenge Climate Change Deniers all day long - I don't see it helping our cause to call them daft bitches, or that silly girl from accoutns!)
 
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icowden

Squire
Bet this is the same situation in the UK
As ever, the point goes sailing over your head. This figure is from a survey carried out by Novus/Bulletin in 2022. The survey was carried out in Swedish and was a sample of 1050 foreign born people. These would therefore be people who have settled in Sweden and have been there long enough that they can understand Swedish. So yes, amongst the group who came as refugees 79% said that they had been on a "holiday" to their home country.

Novus have tried to clear up this misconception:-
The study has recently received renewed media attention, where the target group has in some cases been described in a way that does not correspond to our data. Our panel is a representative sample of the Swedish population, and for the aforementioned study, the target group consisted of foreign-born individuals.

The study surveyed people who immigrated to Sweden for various reasons, often several decades ago. A common statement referring to the study is that the proportion who came to Sweden as refugees and later vacationed in their home country was 79%. What is not clear in the texts is the proportion of foreign-born individuals who moved here for reasons of refuge. Of the foreign-born target group, a total of 18% came to Sweden as refugees. 4% of these came to Sweden between 2010–2022, with the remainder having moved here before then (the study was conducted in 2022).

Novus can conduct studies targeted specifically at, for example, newly arrived refugees, but this was not the target group in this study. This study was aimed at everyone in Sweden who was born abroad.
Of the 1050 respondents, 189 came to Sweden as refugees. Only 7 of them came to Sweden between 2010-2022.
So of the 189 refugee respondents, most of whom had been living in Sweden for more than 12 years, 149 of them had been back to their home country at least once to visit friends or family, presumably because the political situation had changed.

So consider an Iraqi family who fled the Iraq war in say 2008. Over the last 14 years before the survey, the children have finished school and speak Swedish. They have Swedish friends and work in jobs in Sweden. The parents too have jobs, friends and family. However Granny and Grandad are still in Iraq as are cousins / aunties / uncles who weren't killed in the war.

Is it really a huge leap to imagine that they might have taken at least one holiday so that the kids can meet their relatives. Yes, it's probably safe for them to return but the kids don't really speak or write Arabic and they are settled in their new country.

The implication of knee jerk rubbish like this is that refugees are coming for some free hand outs then jumping on the first plane back to tell everyone what a soft touch the new country is.

Try doing some actual reading and research. A quick off the cuff guide for you is that if someone is waving a statistic around like it proves their point about foreigners being bad, it's probably due to their own stupidity in misunderstanding it in the first place. Statistics are not facts.
 

CXRAndy

Senior Member
Labour have had a REMARKABLE first 6 months 🤡

🔴Muslim rape gangs
🔴Freezing pensioners
🔴Labour MPs "freebies"
🔴Increasing immigrant attacks
🔴Chagos
🔴Labour immigration failure
🔴Rachel Reeves fake career
🔴Economy in crisis
🔴Starmer's "second" family
🔴Lord Alli corruption
🔴Starmer popularity in meltdown
 

icowden

Squire

Why do you persist on posting shoot? There are no timelines in that clip, and why in any event, is it a "wrong" thing or hypocritical if a policitician learns something and changes their position? Isn't that a better thing than blindly sticking to what you said?

Some of the clips are non sequiturs. There is a clip of Starmer saying he wouldn't give an interview to the Sun then one about him writing an article to be published in the Sun. Those are two different things.

Back in WW1 thousands died because senior officers obeyed orders without question and just sent more and more soldiers "over the top" to be cut down by enemy fire. Questioning your convictions and changing your mind should be applauded, not criticised.
 

icowden

Squire
🔴Muslim rape gangs
Happened under the Conservatives who did not enact any of the recommendations from the inquiry. Labour are enacting them
🔴Freezing pensioners
Nope. Pensioners on low income still get payments
🔴Labour MPs "freebies"
Small beans compared to those enjoyed by Tories
🔴Increasing immigrant attacks
Provide some data or it hasn't happened.
🔴Chagos

🔴Labour immigration failure
Immigration hasn't changed yet since the Tories introduced the failure.
🔴Rachel Reeves fake career
Didn't happen. She had a real career just timelines were incorrect.
🔴Economy in crisis
No it isn't it's doing OK.
🔴Starmer's "second" family
Are you still taking the tablets?
🔴Lord Alli corruption
He hasn't done anything illegal or against the rules.
🔴Starmer popularity in meltdown
🎆YOU GOT ONE!!!🎆 Yes, the right wing press have done a great job of rubbishing him and he's done a terrible job of actually changing things so far.
 

multitool

Pharaoh
You are wasting your breath, Iain.
 

glasgowcyclist

Über Member
You are wasting your breath, Iain.

I was about to say the same thing.

Cxr isn't interested in facts, or learning, or putting forward a case. He roams around from thread to thread, dropping shoot like a new puppy while grown-ups clean up his mess.

You'll also have noticed he never counters the corrections he's given. Like icowden, I used to waste time putting the guy straight and then I realised that he's not interested in the truth. He just wants to spread misinformation and have others waste time and energy to dispel his crap. But by that time he's dropped even more shoot in four other threads.

Simplest response to any unsupported claim he makes is, "You're lying."
 

CXRAndy

Senior Member
The British public have this perception now of Labour. You denying it, doesn't matter.

These points will be used to batter the Labour party at every opportunity 😁
 

matticus

Guru
Labour have had a REMARKABLE first 6 months 🤡

🔴Muslim rape gangs
🔴Freezing pensioners
🔴Labour MPs "freebies"
🔴Increasing immigrant attacks
🔴Chagos
🔴Labour immigration failure
🔴Rachel Reeves fake career
🔴Economy in crisis
🔴Starmer's "second" family
🔴Lord Alli corruption
🔴Starmer popularity in meltdown

... and the best news, is that anyone can now copy-n-paste that from the Daily Mail contents page!
 

Psamathe

Well-Known Member
How TF does that justify misogynisitic slurs??

You're sounding like a silly old <slur redacted> ranting about anyone and everyone they disagree with.

(and I say that as someone happy to challenge Climate Change Deniers all day long - I don't see it helping our cause to call them daft bitches, or that silly girl from accoutns!)
Unrelated discussions. The question about her being a Climate Change denier is nothing to do with using her nickname.

I'm not ranting, just raising how she seems increasingly to be pushing changes that will severely impact the Climate and according to experts (including the Government) mean we wont hit our legally binding climate pollution reduction targets.

What I found unacceptable that pursuaded me about he "denier credentials" was after the Rosebank & Jachdaw court decision and her then appearing on TV saying how she would be approving the permissions and she said that despite the hydrocarbons comapny not even having prepared or submitted the information and data they are legally obliged to submit and which form the basis for decisions on permissions. She was in effect bypassing scrutiny over something that will have severe climate impacts.

Your post suggests that once a nickname you don't like has been used then that person cannot be criticised for anything else. How long do you suggest Ms Reeves has immunity from my being critical of her actions after I used her widespread nickname?

Ms Reeves is maintaining a high profile at the moment thus different aspects of her actions are bound to be discussed (eg does she not know or understand about environmental & protected species protections or is she just lying about them?).

Ian
 
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