Starmer's vision quest

[Rusty Nails]

Ever thought of weapons contracts


But you'll accept @icowden figures which are higher? I did 30k+. If I suggested 50k+ per month which some articles suggest. Then I would have been accused of over egging.

Show us the articles that say 30k or 50k a month.

I have looked at news and official sources and nowhere can I see figures like the ones you say.

Are you confusing total deaths with monthly deaths or are you referring to casualties...which are much higher than deaths?

I am not believing icowdens figures rather than yours...just saying that yours are wrong...unless you show us the reputable source.

And you really believe that weapons contracts are the reason for European support for Ukraine? Then you are an idiot, and desperate to find a reason to take Trump's side over any other. The US is making more out of weapons sales than any other country so if corporate greed is the reason for the war continuing what is Trump's reason for pushing for peace, unless he will get a better mineral deal with Ukraine and Russia.

 

[icowden]

But you'll accept @icowden figures which are higher?

Mine are the figures from established credible sources. The casualty rate in Ukraine is public knowledge. Russia's is secret but observers and analysts calculate the losses in a number of different ways to come up with a credible figure.

 

[HMS_Dave]

The figures on losses in any war is exaggerated and has been this way for hundreds of years. Its a metric which is often judged on how well a war (or special military operations) go and in the eyes of the public, where war is irrational, confusing and never clear, losses tend to affect morale and ones effectiveness on the field and a countries willingness to fight. So, it is in the interest of the invaders and defenders to muddy these waters as much as possible. The true scale of losses will never truly be known until years after fighting stops and independent sources can audit and verify claims and release a full breakdown of those lost, wounded and missing.

When people announce 30k dead last month and 20k dead the month before etc etc. There will not be a credible source to back this up.

 

[CXRAndy]

Public perception


View: https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1906240476195254413?t=jd5qRBNiyt9FOThiofdPZQ&s=19

 

[icowden]

Public perception

Fuelled by right-wing political parties and newspapers. Still anything for clicks and giggles. Where's the fun in actual factual reporting.
Shabana Mahmood should be sacked for being a dismal failure.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

s has been pointed out before, the guidelines don't do anything that the Justice Secretary or Farage, Tice and Jenrick say it does. The reason being that a pre-sentencing report just gives more information to the Judge. That's all. It is just a provision to encourage better sentencing.
Ideally a pre-sentence report would be generated for every convicted defendant. But it costs money, which the Justice system doesn't have (arguably better sentencing might also save money as you would potentially reduce prison time where it is ineffective).

So are you arguing that it's o.k. to have pre-sentencing for some and not for others?

Fuelled by right-wing political parties and newspapers.

Surely if the pre-sentencing reports are only for certain ethnic and religious groups that suggests the fuel is being handed to them on a plate.
(fuel on a plate?)

 

[C R]

So are you arguing that it's o.k. to have pre-sentencing for some and not for others?

Surely if the pre-sentencing reports are only for certain ethnic and religious groups that suggests the fuel is being handed to them on a plate.
(fuel on a plate?)

The guidelines do no such thing.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Public perception


View: https://x.com/addicted2newz/status/1906240476195254413?t=jd5qRBNiyt9FOThiofdPZQ&s=19

So unable to provide a credible response to posts showing that your figures on Ukraine deaths are a fiction, you quickly move on to another copied X post from a GBnews commentator, before probably repeating your Ukraine lies in a few days time.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

The guidelines do no such thing.

Why the controversy then? Other than some seeing in their interest to whip one up.

 

[C R]

Why the controversy then? Other than some seeing in their interest to whip one up.

Exactly, which was @icowden's point. And the whole thing made worse by the justice secretary not defending the sentencing council and Starmer parroting far right talking points again.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Exactly, which was @icowden's point. And the whole thing made worse by the justice secretary not defending the sentencing council and Starmer parroting far right talking points again.

Which doesn't answer my question. So more specifically, why are pre sentencing reports specifically recommended for some groups and not eg for the white working class?

 

[Psamathe]

Re: New Sentencing Council Guidelines
I'm unsure about the new guidelines but find it difficult to fully appreciate. I feel it's a complex issue and one really needs a fairly extensive appreciation of Court processes and how they work in practice (something I don't have). I do wonder if too many are just "going along" with politicians and the Twitterati providing reasons that oversimplify a complex situation.

I feel uncomfortable about the changes as whilst I accept sentences are statistically different between different groups, I question if the changes will rectify a bias or just patch over it.

Given there is a bias in sentencing (that the new guidelines are trying to address) it is not also possible there is a similar bias against those same groups when it comes to guilty or not-guilty decisions (which the new guidelines won't address) or charge or not-charge or arrest or not arrest, etc..

I'd rather that steps be found to ideally remove the bias at all stages of our judicial process rather than to patch over just one aspect with a change that I suspect fails to address the underlying causes.

Ian

 

[C R]

Which doesn't answer my question. So more specifically, why are pre sentencing reports specifically recommended for some groups and not eg for the white working class?

Pre-sentencing reports are recommended for everyone. What the guidelines say is that when compiling a pre-sentencing report the social background of the person in question should be considered.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Pre-sentencing reports are recommended for everyone. What the guidelines say is that when compiling a pre-sentencing report the social background of the person in question should be considered.

Except it seems to be slightly different to that.

'What is new in the revised version is the list of groups for whom a pre-sentence report is considered particularly important'

https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-e...stice-system-more-fair-not-less-–-expert-view

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1906603016221757804?t=w7pAo2WKhjCoU7Ysa7q02g&s=19


No- see democrats strategy