Starmer's vision quest

[Deleted member 49]

For anyone interested, here's a rundown of the stats.
http://www.statsguy.co.uk/brexit-voting-and-education/

Interpret them how you will. (Did I say I don't trust Dorling - I think I did)

Some have interpreted them as showing Brexit voters are a bit thick.
Of course the Tool hasn't actually said that people voted Brexit because they're thick. He just brought up the stats when replying to Shep, who he sees as thick. Purely coincidental.


Apparently I'm also thick. so it goes.

I quite liked this I read... but unfortunately it doesn't fit in with Mr Tools ideas of things 😁

"A final caveat on both narratives should be borne in mind, one relevant to any discussion of the demographics of any vote: demography is not destiny. No one’s hand is propelled by their social class when they walk into the voting booth and make their mark. Too many discussions of demography treat the voter as determined by their demographic characteristics, rather than as an individual deciding for themselves in the light of evidence, guided by their own values and desires. In fact, a substantial number of people from every demographic – by class, region, ethnicity, gender or age – voted for each of the two options on the ballot paper respectively. Democracy is not the product of any one class or demographic, but the right of every citizen."

 

[BoldonLad]

For anyone interested, here's a rundown of the stats.
http://www.statsguy.co.uk/brexit-voting-and-education/

Interpret them how you will. (Did I say I don't trust Dorling - I think I did)

Some have interpreted them as showing Brexit voters are a bit thick.
Of course the Tool hasn't actually said that people voted Brexit because they're thick. He just brought up the stats when replying to Shep, who he sees as thick. Purely coincidental.


Apparently I'm also thick. so it goes.

Shall we have a "thickness" club?

 

[Deleted member 49]

Shall we have a "thickness" club?

Only if Mr Tool can be the adjudicator...

 

[BoldonLad]

Why would it be a surprise that non graduates, who are more likely to be poorer than graduates, voted Leave? It's less about being 'thick' and more about not seeing the benefits of the EU that others can enjoy because being in the EU has had more tangible personal benefits for the better off than for the poor. If you're skint you're less likely to be bothered if they scrap the Erasmus scheme or you can only stay at your Tuscan holiday home for 3 months. The better off voted in what they perceived to be their own interests, and (some of) the poorer off voted in what they perceived to be theirs (even if it wasn't in the economic long term). It's less about education and more about economic status imo, and the fact that if you aren't well off you're less likely to think long term about stuff because you're busy coping day to day.

The voice of reason. No good on here

 

[BoldonLad]

Only if Mr Tool can be the adjudicator...

I thought he/she already was?

 

[multitool]

There's nothing in that Stats guy blog that contradicts anything I said....and the only people conflating education with intelligence is you Adam, and Beavis and Butthead here.

 

[Deleted member 49]

There's nothing in that Stats guy blog that contradicts anything I said....and the only people conflating education with intelligence is you Adam, and Beavis and Butthead here.

Did I ? Where did I actually say that.

 

[Deleted member 28]

There's nothing in that Stats guy blog that contradicts anything I said....and the only people conflating education with intelligence is you Adam, and Beavis and Butthead here.

So was it the more 'educated' people that caused us to leave or still us thicko racists, or maybe even a mix of both?

 

[multitool]

You tell me. You are the expert

 

[bobzmyunkle]

You tell me

Oh come on, you promised.

I haven't offered any interpretation of the educational data, have I. I've just presented it. I mean, I can give you my view if you like, but as yet I haven't

 

[Rusty Nails]

What exactly does 'better educated" mean?

Obviously because the number of people going on to FE and HE people have more qualifications these days so that the younger population will be "better educated" than the older group wrt to qualifications.

Younger people have always grown up being part of the EU or its former versions and, if they are happy with their circumstances, are less likely to vote for change, whereas older people have seen life outside the EU and are less likely to be alarmed at the thought of leaving.

So the reason that the young/better educated are less likely to vote to remain could be because of their "lived experience" of the only status quo they know, not their age or education level. Similarly for older people whose "lived experience" and lack of worries about being outside the EU could have motivated them rather than just their number of years. Disaffected people of all ages are also less likely to be worried about leaving because they think they have less to lose, and possibly wanted to have a go at the establishment.

I suppose that, in my meandering way, I am saying that education and age may not be the only/main cause of the referendum result, but rather were a foreseeable, natural factor that was bound to affect the result, along with the numbers of disaffected people in the country.

Obviously there are many contributory factors to the result but I remember a saying from a training course many years ago "statistics are like bikinis...what they show is interesting but what they hide is essential". (Sorry for the sexism in that saying ).

 

[Deleted member 49]

What exactly does 'better educated" mean?

Obviously because the number of people going on to FE and HE people have more qualifications these days so that the younger population will be "better educated" than the older group wrt to qualifications.

Younger people have always grown up being part of the EU or its former versions and, if they are happy with their circumstances, are less likely to vote for change, whereas older people have seen life outside the EU and are less likely to be alarmed at the thought of leaving.

So the reason that the young/better educated are less likely to vote to remain could be because of their "lived experience" of the only status quo they know, not their age or education level. Similarly for older people whose "lived experience" and lack of worries about being outside the EU could have motivated them rather than just their number of years. Disaffected people of all ages are also less likely to be worried about leaving because they think they have less to lose, and possibly wanted to have a go at the establishment.

I suppose that, in my meandering way, I am saying that education and age may not be the only/main cause of the referendum result, but rather were a foreseeable, natural factor that was bound to affect the result, along with the numbers of disaffected people in the country.

Obviously there are many contributory factors to the result but I remember a saying from a training course many years ago "statistics are like bikinis...what they show is interesting but what they hide is essential". (Sorry for the sexism in that saying ).

Your thinking too deep there Rusty.🙄

 

[BoldonLad]

What exactly does 'better educated" mean?

Obviously because the number of people going on to FE and HE people have more qualifications these days so that the younger population will be "better educated" than the older group wrt to qualifications.

Younger people have always grown up being part of the EU or its former versions and, if they are happy with their circumstances, are less likely to vote for change, whereas older people have seen life outside the EU and are less likely to be alarmed at the thought of leaving.

So the reason that the young/better educated are less likely to vote to remain could be because of their "lived experience" of the only status quo they know, not their age or education level. Similarly for older people whose "lived experience" and lack of worries about being outside the EU could have motivated them rather than just their number of years. Disaffected people of all ages are also less likely to be worried about leaving because they think they have less to lose, and possibly wanted to have a go at the establishment.

I suppose that, in my meandering way, I am saying that education and age may not be the only/main cause of the referendum result, but rather were a foreseeable, natural factor that was bound to affect the result, along with the numbers of disaffected people in the country.

Obviously there are many contributory factors to the result but I remember a saying from a training course many years ago "statistics are like bikinis...what they show is interesting but what they hide is essential". (Sorry for the sexism in that saying ).

I do actually know several people who voted "leave" just because they didn't want to vote for what "Dave the toff" (their words), was supporting.

There were all "young" people, well, a generation younger than me

 

[Rusty Nails]

Your thinking too deep there Rusty.🙄

It won't last. My head hurts.

I used to use statistics a lot for a part of my working life. I got quite good at using the stats to maximise the pros and minimise the cons of whatever we were trying to push.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Sounds hilarious 🙄
Bring it on!’ Keir Starmer has said he wants election debates with Rishi Sunak. Some recent PMs have dodged them.

In an interview with @mattforde last night, Sir Keir also said that Angela Rayner would be his deputy PM if he gets to No 10, and more....

View: https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1628089669291327490?t=BW05wsa-7Px9h7kQ6gT5Mg&s=19