Starmer's vision quest

[newfhouse]

Who's the fool now eh?

Still you, I’m afraid.

Seven years on and all you have to show for it is a distant memory of a “win” that delivered none of the promised resurgence of bulldog spirit, riches, or reduction in brown faces in your Co-op.

But at least you showed the wokey libtards who’s in charge, eh?

 

[multitool]

Owning the libs by sh1tting your own pants so that everyone has to put up with the stench.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Still you, I’m afraid.

Seven years on and all you have to show for it is a distant memory of a “win” that delivered none of the promised resurgence of bulldog spirit, riches, or reduction in brown faces in your Co-op.

But at least you showed the wokey libtards who’s in charge, eh?

It's exactly that for me 'a distant memory ' only brought up by a few bitter souls on here.

It's always worth the craic though, as you were.

I would have thought you'd have more important things to worry about now your little leader has bailed.

 

[theclaud]

it could make changes that would wipe the Tories out forever. But as you say, if they broadcast those intentions we know what will happen.

This is interesting. I think I floated earlier in the thread the fantasy that Keir's mendacity could theoretically be deployed to our advantage - look and sound like an establishment stooge, get in on the back of MSM support and the swing voters of Nuneaton, throw back the cloak with a flourish and start rolling back anti-union legislation and renationalising everything. Ain't gonna happen tho.

 

[multitool]

There's always the reaction of the markets to consider. After all, we had a little taste of that last September.

If you want to change the system, first you have to change the system.

 

[Deleted member 49]

That is a mistake which nobody is making, apart from Adam but thats hardly surprising He also thinks that non-graduates cannot be middle class.

Also worth pointing out that given the older age demographic of brexit voters, they are less likely to have high education levels when compared to younger demographics. 4% of school leavers went to university in the 1960s compared to nearly 40% in 2016. And, of course, this is a country with an ageing population.

Don't try and turn it round...I was being sarcastic to your observation that Brexit voters were uneducated,then settling for the old middle age southerner's.
You wonder why people voted leave ffs.
Ive never belittle,or mocked anyone on their education,I mean how could I ! My grammer and spelling is shocking.But carry on...

 

[multitool]

Don't try and turn it round...I was being sarcastic to your observation that Brexit voters were uneducated,then settling for the old middle age southerner's.
You wonder why people voted leave ffs.
Ive never belittle,or mocked anyone on their education,

Neither have I.

It is a fact that brexit voter demographic had lower educational levels than remain voters. That is a fact, not a value judgement or a slur. It is also a fact that the brexit demographic were predominantly older. I've put some meat on the bones for you with data on university uptake in the 70s to 10s. Fact not opinion.

You've then conflated education with intelligence, not me. If you want to have a fact-based discussion I'm in, but if it's neanderthal grunts from a barely literate baboon then you'll have to find someone else to throw your poos at.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Neither have I.

It is a fact that brexit voter demographic had lower educational levels than remain voters. That is a fact, not a value judgement or a slur. It is also a fact that the brexit demographic were predominantly older. I've put some meat on the bones for you with data on university uptake in the 70s to 10s. Fact not opinion.

Except I don't see it like that...I see poverty,lack of opportunities and being generally fecked by successive governments that caused a lot of the leave vote.Feck you only have to look at my home town.
Anyway enough about Brexit...you really want another election on that ? Then I would fear for your leader....

Waiting in the wings in Boris Johnson, fresh from poncing around in Kiev

Back to Starmer and his 3D chess strategy...over in the other thread you say this.Has Starmer not just popped over to "Ponce around" I mean he can Ponce over there but he won't go within 20 yards of a picket line ?

 

[winjim]

This is interesting. I think I floated earlier in the thread the fantasy that Keir's mendacity could theoretically be deployed to our advantage - look and sound like an establishment stooge, get in on the back of MSM support and the swing voters of Nuneaton, throw back the cloak with a flourish and start rolling back anti-union legislation and renationalising everything. Ain't gonna happen tho.

I did read a piece suggesting that with a huge majority Starmer's basically screwed, because without some very specific manifesto commitments to hold his MPs to he's going to find it very difficult to enforce party discipline.

You might already have read it, I'll see if I can track it down.

 

[multitool]

Except I don't see it like that...I see poverty,lack of opportunities and being generally fecked by successive governments that caused a lot of the leave vote.Feck you only have to look at my home town.

There is nothing to "see". I haven't offered any interpretation of the educational data, have I. I've just presented it. I mean, I can give you my view if you like, but as yet I haven't. You seem to be arguing with thin air here.

With regards to your home town etc, notwithstanding that some people may have voted for Brexit because of lack of opportunity etc, the fact is the huge bulk of leave votes did not come from downtrodden towns in the North.

They came from the comparatively affluent south-east.

I'm not imagining this. It's data based fact. There's loads of analysis about. Oxford Professor of social geography Danny Dorling has written widely on it.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Oxford Professor of social geography Danny Dorling has written widely on it.

Oxford professor of making the stats fit his conclusion before he's even considered what the middle bit might be.
You might disagree, after all he's an 'Oxford Professor'.

It's data based fact.

I.e. data (complete or otherwise) that's been interpreted and can be re-interpreted to become a different 'data based fact'

 

[winjim]

I did read a piece suggesting that with a huge majority Starmer's basically screwed, because without some very specific manifesto commitments to hold his MPs to he's going to find it very difficult to enforce party discipline.

You might already have read it, I'll see if I can track it down.

Here we go.

https://arieh.substack.com/p/what-if-the-tories-are-wiped-out

 

[multitool]

Oxford professor of making the stats fit his conclusion before he's even considered what the middle bit might be.
You might disagree, after all he's an 'Oxford Professor'.

I.e. data (complete or otherwise) that's been interpreted and can be re-interpreted to become a different 'data based fact'

Ah right OK.

A whole new world of stupid.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

For anyone interested, here's a rundown of the stats.
http://www.statsguy.co.uk/brexit-voting-and-education/

Interpret them how you will. (Did I say I don't trust Dorling - I think I did)

Some have interpreted them as showing Brexit voters are a bit thick.
Of course the Tool hasn't actually said that people voted Brexit because they're thick. He just brought up the stats when replying to Shep, who he sees as thick. Purely coincidental.

A whole new world of stupid.

Apparently I'm also thick. so it goes.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Why would it be a surprise that non graduates, who are more likely to be poorer than graduates, voted Leave? It's less about being 'thick' and more about not seeing the benefits of the EU that others can enjoy because being in the EU has had more tangible personal benefits for the better off than for the poor. If you're skint you're less likely to be bothered if they scrap the Erasmus scheme or you can only stay at your Tuscan holiday home for 3 months. The better off voted in what they perceived to be their own interests, and (some of) the poorer off voted in what they perceived to be theirs (even if it wasn't in the economic long term). It's less about education and more about economic status imo, and the fact that if you aren't well off you're less likely to think long term about stuff because you're busy coping day to day.