Starmer's vision quest

[spen666]

Where do they say that? A link would be nice.

Have you read your previous post #12583

 

[CXRAndy]

Another brewing scandal


View: https://x.com/Basil_TGMD/status/1982841165327274369?t=UwgjQxByWKSxcME2Rot8tw&s=19

 

[Stevo 666]

OK - but considering England's population's over 56 million & Scotland's is around 5.5 million, this would mean the English electorate was deciding for us.

Some might say we should be used to that by now...

I don't see why the Scots should be the only party that has a say in it - regardless of the relative size of the parties.

Btw if Scotland had voted for independence a decade back, I would have respected the decision. (Contrast that with the attitude of some remainers after the Brexit referendum).

 

[Xipe Totec]

I don't see why the Scots should be the only party that has a say in it - regardless of the relative size of the parties.

Btw if Scotland had voted for independence a decade back, I would have respected the decision. (Contrast that with the attitude of some remainers after the Brexit referendum).

So you are saying that, following an independence referendum that can only happen if a government elected by the people of England deigns to permit it, the result of that referendum should also be decided by the people of England?

Much like fucking Brexit was, since you mention it.

 

[the snail]

I don't see why the Scots should be the only party that has a say in it - regardless of the relative size of the parties.

Btw if Scotland had voted for independence a decade back, I would have respected the decision. (Contrast that with the attitude of some remainers after the Brexit referendum).

Most remain voters accepted the result as far as I can tell,even though it was only an advisory vote, and really it is generally best to ignore idiotic advice.

 

[Stevo 666]

So you are saying that, following an independence referendum that can only happen if a government elected by the people of England deigns to permit it, the result of that referendum should also be decided by the people of England?

Much like fucking Brexit was, since you mention it.

No I'm not. I'm saying that we should have a say in it. Why should only the Scots have a say in whether England and Scotland stay in the union or separate?

And if Brexit was such a terrible thing, why are you so keen on Scotland doing a similar thing?

 

[Stevo 666]

Most remain voters accepted the result as far as I can tell,even though it was only an advisory vote, and really it is generally best to ignore idiotic advice.

Most did, true.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I don't see why the Scots should be the only party that has a say in it - regardless of the relative size of the parties.

Btw if Scotland had voted for independence a decade back, I would have respected the decision. (Contrast that with the attitude of some remainers after the Brexit referendum).

Should the rest of the EU have had a say in whether the UK was allowed to leave @Stevo 666 ?

 

[briantrumpet]

Most remain voters accepted the result as far as I can tell,even though it was only an advisory vote, and really it is generally best to ignore idiotic advice.

Stevo claims that being really pissed off with the result and arguing that Brexit is rubbish is 'not accepting it'. Obviously being pissed off with an election result and arguing that the ruling party is rubbish is entirely legitimate and definitely not 'not accepting it'.

 

[Psamathe]

Re: Scotland Independence
Just like for Brexit, with long term major impact changes that do tie future Governments to the change is it not reasonable to require some degree of "super-majority"?

 

[Pblakeney]

Re: Scotland Independence
Just like for Brexit, with long term major impact changes that do tie future Governments to the change is it not reasonable to require some degree of "super-majority"?

I'd have said a minimum of 60% of the vote, along with a minimum of 60% eligible electorate actually voting.
Actually, I'd go for mandatory voting like they have in some other countries, Australia for example.

 

[Stevo 666]

Should the rest of the EU have had a say in whether the UK was allowed to leave @Stevo 666 ?

Bit late for that Bobz.

 

[spen666]

Re: Scotland Independence
Just like for Brexit, with long term major impact changes that do tie future Governments to the change is it not reasonable to require some degree of "super-majority"?

No

 

[First Aspect]

I'd have said a minimum of 60% or the vote, along with a minimum of 60% eligible electorate actually voting.
Actually, I'd go for mandatory voting like they have in some other countries, Australia for example.

Indeed. And it is worth remembering the outrage of the SNP at a lack of a requirement of all of the individual UK nations to have voted leave.

This is of course complete hypocrisy because there's no suggestion that any pro-UK region of Scotland (which is ALL of it except Glasgow and Dundee) might somehow prevent independence in the event of a 50%+1 result.

Put another way, Glasgow, because of it's population would under the SNPs vision drag the whole of the rest of Scotland out of the UK. Which is supposedly fine.

 

[briantrumpet]

Yup. Sadly I doubt if Starmer has the courage to ditch Glasman's & McSweeney's counsel, as I think it was that which gave him the courage to deal with Corbyn, so he is blind to what it's been doing since the election. I genuinely don't think that Glasman will be upset if Farage becomes PM, and maybe even mistakenly thinks that Farage is going to stand up for 'the working class'.