Starmer's vision quest

[BoldonLad]

That would discourage many from going ev though. Long ranges need big/more batteries and they are heavy. You do need to plan a bit if you want a short range ev as an everyday car and not everyone will want that inconvenience.

If the manufacture/sale of new ICE cars is to cease, at whatever date is currently in vogue, the switch to EVs (or, some other form of propulsion) will happen, unless, we are all going to buy Haynes manuals and run our existing ICE cars indefinitely. Sounds like a return to the 1960's, when every weekend was spend bodging bodywork or performing mechanical surgery on the family car 😊

 

[BoldonLad]

It looks good on paper but it will mean that if you have a family and therefore higher costs due to raising kids, you should pay more. But pensioners and single people should pay less?

The only time the weight thing works is if you skew it to the very high end luxury EV market and even then it's hit and miss.

A bit of an assumption there, I would doubt that singletons or pensioners are exclusively small car drivers, singletons often have disposable income to indulge themselves with, and, in the case of pensioners, a small car is often precluded by simple considerations of access 😂

Weight is weight, doesn't matter the luxury level, how is that hit and miss?

 

[briantrumpet]

No, kill the unecessarily large car market. I don't much care how said cars are propelled.

Would you like a tax rebate for your keyboard transportation needs now? If you need a large car, okay, but it was the batshit notion that this unfairly penalised people with large families that I was replying to. As someone who travelled up and down the country in a 1985 Ford cortina, a Hillman avenger and a Super minx, and who has successfully recovered from using the back seat of an original Fiat panda, I can confirm that the "need" for a 5 metre long 2 metre wide 2.3 ton vehicle is over stated.

It's the fact that these bloated SUVs have become normalised that annoys me. Sure, safety measures (effective for the occupants, at least) have increased car size, but it's nuts that we've got minibus-sized 'cars' carrying just four or five people, given the environmental impact.

 

[briantrumpet]

FWIW - from the Economist

https://www.economist.com/britain/2...nks-up-income-taxes-the-left-will-boo-loudest

 

[BoldonLad]

That just isn't true. Try getting suitcases and a pushchair inside the boot of a saloon when you go and visit granny and grandad for a week.
Also, how many EV saloons can you list?

The fact is that the SUV shape has become pretty much ubiquitous. The only alternative in EV world is a hatchback.


There are a few EV estates - they are really big, expensive and er... heavy.


Not suggesting a minivan. Just that you won't find a light family sized EV.

"space" is sometimes, at least, dependent on design. For example,a few years ago, I had need to transport 5 suitcases (on behalf of my son), from Houston, Texas, to our home, then, subsequently to his home (Windsor). When I (well, we,Mrs B was with me) arrived at Newcastle Airport,we were being picked up by daughter no 1, who, at the time, had a Nissan Note. I was fully expecting to have to get the metro or a taxi, because I doubted that 3 people and 6 suitcases (ie my son's 5, plus ours) could be accommodated in the Nissan Note.

Wrong, it all went in.

Subsequently, I acquired a Nissan Quashki ( a larger car than the Nissan Note), on behalf of my son, and, delivered it to Windsor for him. With no passengers, I was able to get the 5 suitcases in the Quashki, but, only just. I would have been unable to get two passengers, and, an additional suitcase in.

 

[Rusty Nails]

and who has successfully recovered from using the back seat of an original Fiat panda, I can confirm that the "need" for a 5 metre long 2 metre wide 2.3 ton vehicle is over stated.

My kids still have nightmares about that awful "stretcher" seat.

 

[briantrumpet]

Happy to carry on with this car tangent here? Could do a separate thread...

But for now...

The problem with car-bloat is that there's not a real penalty for it, or to optimise the safety/weight aspect. At least with aeroplanes, where we understandably don't want them to fall apart but not to run out of fuel, there is a premium for minimising weight while maintaining structural integrity - hence the famous video of a Boeing fuselage being tested to destruction, with the design requirement of being able to withstand 150% of the maximum conceivable upward force on its wings. It always gives me pleasure watching the engineers' delight at exactly meeting their brief.

 

[First Aspect]

My kids still have nightmares about that awful "stretcher" seat.

I owned one once. I still have nightmares about the gearbox. And the bakes. And the rust proofing.

But it did fit my entire worldly belongings in, when I first went to uni, plus mum who drove it back empty.

 

[icowden]

"space" is sometimes, at least, dependent on design.

Very true. I hired a car in Iceland which according to HolidayExtras seated 5 and had room for 4 cases. When we arrived it was a Kia Sportage, and the chap at the hire firm expressed grave doubts that we would get 4 suitcases in. He also apologised and said that brokers keep misreporting car sizes.

Anyway - after moving the rake of the back seats, I did, with some suitcase Jenga, manage to get the 4 suitcases in. It was a bit of a squish and a squeeze but we did manage with the Sportage. They did offer to upgrade us but mentioned in the same sentence that it would like cost in the order of thousands of Euros. I declined their kind offer.

On the flip side, in Canada we hired a GMC Yukon XL for 6 of us plus bags and hand luggage. Despite the frankly ludicrous size of the Yukon XL we could still only get 5 suitcases in the boot (plus hand luggage) - the 6th case had to sit in the middle row between the two seats (for some reason although those cars are available in an 8 seat config, hire firms always go for 2 armchair style seats in the middle row.

Canada didn't seem to have minivan type cars which would have been far better...

 

[briantrumpet]

I owned one once. I still have nightmares about the gearbox. And the bakes. And the rust proofing.

But it did fit my entire worldly belongings in, when I first went to uni, plus mum who drove it back empty.

I think my biggest triumph was getting a 6'11" harpsichord in a Chrysler Sunbeam to bring it back from university.

 

[icowden]

A bit of an assumption there, I would doubt that singletons or pensioners are exclusively small car drivers, singletons often have disposable income to indulge themselves with, and, in the case of pensioners, a small car is often precluded by simple considerations of access 😂

I admit to sweeping generalisation to make a point ;-)

Weight is weight, doesn't matter the luxury level, how is that hit and miss?

Because a Porsche Taycan is quite light at around 2170kg compared to an e-Range Rover at 2800kg or a Mercedes EQV at 2960Kg. The very heavy ones tend to be the most expensive, but not all of the most expensive EVs are the heaviest.

 

[icowden]

I think my biggest triumph was getting a 6'11" harpsichord in a Chrysler Sunbeam to bring it back from university.

When you say "in"...

 

[briantrumpet]

When you say "in"...

The interior space was exactly 7ft with the front passenger seat down. Wouldn't have worked with left-hand drive.

 

[First Aspect]

I think my biggest triumph was getting a 6'11" harpsichord in a Chrysler Sunbeam to bring it back from university.

View attachment 10867

They were good cars. I had a Talbot version.

I mean when I say good, I don't mean the engine or the handling, which was asthmatic and yacht like, respectively. But it was engineered to safely understeer on any road above about 10 mph. Nor do I refer to the interior materials quality, on account of the scratchy seats and the sticky steering wheel. Or the safety, because there wasn't any. Or the brakes, which were engineered not to frighten anyone with suddenly decelerations.

But they were easy to break into, cheap and the a pillars were nice and small.

Great cars.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I owned one once. I still have nightmares about the gearbox. And the bakes. And the rust proofing.

But it did fit my entire worldly belongings in, when I first went to uni, plus mum who drove it back empty.

Not to forget the tin interior.

But apart from those it was great. My son learned to drive on it.