Starmer's vision quest

[TailWindHome]

What changes do you propose to make government more efficient and deliver better services?

I don't have any proposals.
Sorry

 

[briantrumpet]

According to Cummings the NIO is controlled by Sinn Fein/IRA

Nutjob.

IIRC from Cake Stop, NI was sometimes viewed by the some of the 'general public' (at least on the right) as inconsequential, so the views of the people living there could be dismissed without a second thought. I suspect that Boris Johnson was of a similar view, not least as facing up to facts was darned difficult.

 

[briantrumpet]

What changes do you propose to make government more efficient and deliver better services?

I'd suggest stop pandering to social media whims and listening to pollsters, and do things on principle. Whether your preferred flavour of government was more Thatcher or Blair, most people would admit that they 'got things done' (for right or wrong), and I would suggest that both did what they believed was the right thing to do, not what pollsters or social-media consuming focus groups and advisors told them.

In the end, both lost elections because of that, I'd suggest, but there's little denying that both changed the nature of the UK.

 

[Pblakeney]

I'd suggest stop pandering to social media whims and listening to pollsters, and do things on principle. Whether your preferred flavour of government was more Thatcher or Blair, most people would admit that they 'got things done' (for right or wrong), and I would suggest that both did what they believed was the right thing to do, not what pollsters or social-media consuming focus groups and advisors told them.

In the end, both lost elections because of that, I'd suggest, but there's little denying that both changed the nature of the UK.

Point of order. Neither lost elections, they both resigned and handed over to Major and Brown respectively.

 

[briantrumpet]

Point of order. Neither lost elections, they both resigned and handed over to Major and Brown respectively.

Damn, fair point!

That said, maybe that might bolster my thesis: they either ran out of stuff that they 'believed in', or were welded to an idea that the focus groups would have told them not to do, and rather than compromise their 'visions' to satisfy some pollster said would win the next election, they said nuffs-enough and walked away.

 

[Dorset Boy]

I think you run your course after a decade in power.

 

[Pblakeney]

Damn, fair point!

That said, maybe that might bolster my thesis: they either ran out of stuff that they 'believed in', or were welded to an idea that the focus groups would have told them not to do, and rather than compromise their 'visions' to satisfy some pollster said would win the next election, they said nuffs-enough and walked away.

Funny that both went out of favour soon after winning their third terms.
Maybe the USAnians are onto something with the two term maximum.

 

[Shortfall]

I'd suggest stop pandering to social media whims and listening to pollsters, and do things on principle. Whether your preferred flavour of government was more Thatcher or Blair, most people would admit that they 'got things done' (for right or wrong), and I would suggest that both did what they believed was the right thing to do, not what pollsters or social-media consuming focus groups and advisors told them.

In the end, both lost elections because of that, I'd suggest, but there's little denying that both changed the nature of the UK.

Cummins points to various mechanisms/institutions that bog the government down and prevent them from carrying out their program. He cites the Cabinet Office that effectively assumes the powers that ministers once had, the ECHR, and the fact that so much of policy is now ceded to QUANGOs and set in law rather than elected ministers who are accountable to parliament and the public. You are free to disagree with his analysis but I don't think anyone can argue that the government and our institutions are effective in delivering services and performing their functions. The evidence is all around us. So rather than people telling me what a cünt Cummins is or asking am I some kind of a comedian for agreeing with a lot of what he says, I am asking them to tell me where he's wrong and what would they do instead?

 

[Pblakeney]

Cummins points to various mechanisms/institutions that bog the government down and prevent them from carrying out their program. He cites the Cabinet Office that effectively assumes the powers that ministers once had, the ECHR, and the fact that so much of policy is now ceded to QUANGOs and set in law rather than elected ministers who are accountable to parliament and the public. You are free to disagree with his analysis but I don't think anyone can argue that the government and our institutions are effective in delivering services and performing their functions. The evidence is all around us. So rather than people telling me what a cünt Cummins is or asking am I some kind of a comedian for agreeing with a lot of what he says, I am asking them to tell me where he's wrong and what would they do instead?

Sounds like he wants to go down the same path as Donnie.
I suggest using that as a testing ground for the next 3 years before making any rash decisions.

 

[Shortfall]

Sounds like he wants to go down the same path as Donnie.
I suggest using that as a testing ground for the next 3 years before making any rash decisions.

Yeah we can do that. Or we can look at what we have here and why it isn't working. As a fellow Eeyore I know you agree that we're fücked so if you don't agree with Cummins theory that we have an ineffective civil service, sub standard ministers (because anyone with a brain doesn't want to work in Government) and a system of government that is hide bound by the ECHR , then what is your analysis? How do we break.out of the malaise? How do we avoid (mis) managed decline?

 

[Shortfall]

I don't have any proposals.
Sorry

I appreciate your honesty.

 

[TailWindHome]

I appreciate your honesty.

Sure thing.

If only Cummings were as honest.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Cummins points to various mechanisms/institutions that bog the government down and prevent them from carrying out their program. He cites the Cabinet Office that effectively assumes the powers that ministers once had, the ECHR, and the fact that so much of policy is now ceded to QUANGOs and set in law rather than elected ministers who are accountable to parliament and the public. You are free to disagree with his analysis but I don't think anyone can argue that the government and our institutions are effective in delivering services and performing their functions. The evidence is all around us. So rather than people telling me what a cünt Cummins is or asking am I some kind of a comedian for agreeing with a lot of what he says, I am asking them to tell me where he's wrong and what would they do instead?

Other than the EHCR all of the mechanisms mentioned are chosen by the government to assist in the process of government decision making and, if they are 'bogging' the government down, it is a fault of that government (whether Tory or Labour) rather than the mechanisms. IMO this is preferable to the sort of situation that we had when Thatcher was in charge and she ignored cabinet responsibility or decision-making (a bit like Blair and his 'sofa government) or the sort of situation that the US currently has where Trump rides roughshod over the mechanisms within the constitution, or even the issue that may arise if Farage ever got into power with the ragtag bunch of chancers in Reform. I can see why Cummings, from his experience as power behind the throne, dislikes the idea of someone diluting his influence.

The EHCR is a separate issue as it is an external influence that UK governments have historically signed up to, and I fully understand why the arch Brexiteer dislikes it.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Cummins points to various mechanisms/institutions that bog the government down and prevent them from carrying out their program. He cites the Cabinet Office that effectively assumes the powers that ministers once had, the ECHR, and the fact that so much of policy is now ceded to QUANGOs and set in law rather than elected ministers who are accountable to parliament and the public. You are free to disagree with his analysis but I don't think anyone can argue that the government and our institutions are effective in delivering services and performing their functions. The evidence is all around us. So rather than people telling me what a cünt Cummins is or asking am I some kind of a comedian for agreeing with a lot of what he says, I am asking them to tell me where he's wrong and what would they do instead?

Having worked with numerous central govt. departments, including the Cabinet Office, what Cummings says is just plain wrong. Ministers set out their policy and Civil Servants work solely to carry it out. The reason we have seen so much poorly enacted policy over the last decade is because it was poorly conceived from the outset. As others have pointed out above, the reason so much of it is poorly conceived is due to it being policy created to win votes.

Cummings constantly points to some kind of Civil Service led conspiracy designed to quell Ministers ambitions and protect the bloated overpaid middle managers that are allegedly seen throughout the CS. I think the more glaring fact is that people like Cummings and the parade of talentless Ministers we have endured for a decade didn't have the knowledge, ambition and insight to develop meaningful policy and effect positive change.

If you come up with good policy interventions, you have a whoke wealth of highly talented people working to implement it for you. If that doesn't happen, it's not because they are working against you but rather they have nothing to work with.

 

[TailWindHome]

Having listened to the podcast, he's really angry that the Army may face prosecution for murders they committed in NI

I'm going to suggest it's a good thing that there's an external recourse (ECHR) if state forces murder their own citizens.

Sorry if this held Cummings back from moving fast and breaking things.