Starmer's vision quest

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Two Tory and one Reform for me. All the other wards are largely Reform so far. I really am unsure what exactly Reform voters think they are getting? Even if you are buying what they are selling, the odds they can deliver it are slim to none.

 

[TailWindHome]

The hatred for Starmer still makes no sense to me
it's undeniable, but still..

 

[icowden]

Looks like Wales is now a Plaid win probably in coalition with Labour for the majority. Scotland is looking like SNP win. No sign of Reform even bothering in Scotland.

In England Reform has gained a lot of councillors, but only taken control of 8 councils which is interesting.

 

[briantrumpet]

Looks like Wales is now a Plaid win probably in coalition with Labour for the majority. Scotland is looking like SNP win. No sign of Reform even bothering in Scotland.

In England Reform has gained a lot of councillors, but only taken control of 8 councils which is interesting.

I suspect a lot of "Oh god, not Reform!" voting, to limit the gains, to counter the Brexity areas which have gone all in on Reform.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

The hatred for Starmer still makes no sense to me
it's undeniable, but still..

A large part of it is media concocted without doubt. Same with Corbyn, Rayner etc. The right wing press and social media bots are very effective influencers.

 

[First Aspect]

In Sunderland, the Reform Voters (or at least a high proportion of them) must be former Labour voters, there simply were not enough (former) conservatives voters to produce this scale of upset.

It's symptomatic of wealth being concentrated somewhere else, and feeling forgotten by national politics. I do understand, but these are the same people who voted leave and are now voting reform because the consequences of leaving bave been so bad. This is tempering my sympathy.

 

[briantrumpet]

A large part of it is media concocted without doubt. Same with Corbyn, Rayner etc. The right wing press and social media bots are very effective influencers.

But, to be fair, he's enough of a blank canvas that he's quite easy to land punches on. What are his principles and his passions? Who knows?? And there's part of your problem. I can't imagine he's viewed with warmth by anyone outside his family. He makes John Major look interesting and relatable, and he was thought of as 'grey' at the time.

 

[briantrumpet]

It's symptomatic of wealth being concentrated somewhere else, and feeling forgotten by national politics. I do understand, but these are the same people who voted leave and are now voting reform because the consequences of leaving bave been so bad. This is tempering my sympathy.

A case of "That didn't work, so let's do it again, and do it harder".

But it's easy to criticise when one's not in their shoes. The system is rigged against them: Johnson said he'd 'Level Up' and didn't, Starmer said he'd 'go for growth', and bugger all has happened. OK, I can see from my comfortable liberal bubble that Reform is just going to make things even worse for them, but...

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

It's symptomatic of wealth being concentrated somewhere else, and feeling forgotten by national politics. I do understand, but these are the same people who voted leave and are now voting reform because the consequences of leaving bave been so bad. This is tempering my sympathy.

I think about this a lot. I do agree, but wealth and power has always been concentrated amongst a select few, and those who are forgotten now have always been forgotten, their parents/grandparents were forgotten too. The only thing that has really changed has been the growing tide of populism post Brexit. The press and social media has made a constant and concerted effort to push populist ideology, funded by foreign billionaires and various other rogue actors who wish to either enrich themselves further or destabilise democratic processes.

 

[First Aspect]

Not sure if it's that complicated.

Social media creates echo chambers.

People intrinsically wish to belong.

If you combine the two then you end up with people being drawn to tribes, and they will tend to be drawn to the tribes with simplest and most appealing messages (because most people are quite thick).

Once in a tribe you need not think independently again, just get fed the messages you want to hear by social media.

 

[briantrumpet]

Some good charts here:

https://skywriter.blue/@dylandifford.bsky.social/3mle5bycxwk2y

 

[First Aspect]

For some reason I thought that said daffodil.bsky.social, and who wants to read that?

 

[briantrumpet]

Not sure if it's that complicated.

Social media creates echo chambers.

People intrinsically wish to belong.

If you combine the two then you end up with people being drawn to tribes, and they will tend to be drawn to the tribes with simplest and most appealing messages (because most people are quite thick).

Once in a tribe you need not think independently again, just get fed the messages you want to hear by social media.

Saw some post by the daughter of a couple who'd voted Reform (sorry, can't find it now), and she'd read out some actual Reform policies to them, and they were a bit horrified by them. They "didn't realise".

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

The hatred for Starmer still makes no sense to me
it's undeniable, but still..

Corbyn, teressa may, the one that was shorter pm then a Lettice lives, Sunak, and now Starmer, they all weren't very popularr, then the ones making promises he can't keep gets all the love...

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

But, to be fair, he's enough of a blank canvas that he's quite easy to land punches on. What are his principles and his passions? Who knows?? And there's part of your problem. I can't imagine he's viewed with warmth by anyone outside his family. He makes John Major look interesting and relatable, and he was thought of as 'grey' at the time.

True, but someone like Rayner had clear principles and charisma (whether her brand of charm was your cup of tea or not!) and they spent a lot of time targeting her too. If you keep hammering someone enough you end up convincing a lot of people. Although I agree it is a lot easier to convince them when there isn't much to counter with a la Starmer.