Sturgeon resigns
- Thread starter PK99
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D
Deleted member 49
Guest
I'm glad you used the word think...you can't be sure what he is.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ng-to-promise-repeal-of-tory-anti-strike-laws
icowden
Squire
That's why I used the word "think"
He seems to be suffering from a bit of the same sitting-on-the-fence-and-seeing-which-way-the-wind-blows-itus that afflicted Corbyn.
theclaud
Reading around the chip
That's a union supporting Starmer, not Starmer supporting unions.
Xipe Totec
Something nasty in the woodshed
It is. Any idea how, beyond bloody revolution?
Milzy
Well-Known Member
I’ve always been pro union but if I was Scottish after the Brexit and Covid mess I’d be out marching and signing petitions demanding one last referendum.
glasgowcyclist
Über Member
And in the event that the referendum went against independence, why would you commit future generations to an undemocratic and subordinate existence?
Rusty Nails
Country Member
I believe that if there was a clear and demonstrable strong majority for independence in Scotland then eventually the UK Government would have to accept it and allow a referendum.
It seems as if the SNP is not fully confident that it has such a majority or would be a strong enough favourite to win a referendum, and is quite happy to carry on campaigning ad infinitum rather than take the chance that it would again not get public support when push comes to shove, which would set their cause back many years.
I hope I am wrong in the above, but imo as an outsider the answer lies with the will and action of the Scottish people and not the SNP. The Scottish people should lead the SNP towards independence and not the other way round.
It seems as if the SNP is not fully confident that it has such a majority or would be a strong enough favourite to win a referendum, and is quite happy to carry on campaigning ad infinitum rather than take the chance that it would again not get public support when push comes to shove, which would set their cause back many years.
I hope I am wrong in the above, but imo as an outsider the answer lies with the will and action of the Scottish people and not the SNP. The Scottish people should lead the SNP towards independence and not the other way round.
Xipe Totec
Something nasty in the woodshed
Both Tories and Labour have said there will never be another independence referendum, regardless of polls, election results and popular demand. Labour, should they not win an overall majority at the next GE, have said, in so many words that they would concede to the Tories before they do a deal with the SNP. That's because they know the price of an SNP-supported government would be an independence referendum.
If, as many seem to imagine, the independence movement would clearly lose another referendum, don't you find it odd that Scotland's owners haven't deigned to grant one, simply to shut up the whingeing Nats & stamp their Brexity authority on their miserable faces, once and for all? Perhaps they remember that when Cameron granted the last Section 30 order, independence was polling in the low-to-mid 30s, rather than the consistent +/-50 the last 18 months or so have shown.
Why would they do that? They are seemingly oblivious to the SNP - a party that exists to achieve independence - winning every election they contest, so why on earth would they risk their ownership of Scotland because of easily-discredited opinion polls?
And why would they grant a referendum that those polls say they would lose?
If, as many seem to imagine, the independence movement would clearly lose another referendum, don't you find it odd that Scotland's owners haven't deigned to grant one, simply to shut up the whingeing Nats & stamp their Brexity authority on their miserable faces, once and for all? Perhaps they remember that when Cameron granted the last Section 30 order, independence was polling in the low-to-mid 30s, rather than the consistent +/-50 the last 18 months or so have shown.
Why would they do that? They are seemingly oblivious to the SNP - a party that exists to achieve independence - winning every election they contest, so why on earth would they risk their ownership of Scotland because of easily-discredited opinion polls?
And why would they grant a referendum that those polls say they would lose?
Rusty Nails
Country Member
They are seemingly oblivious to the SNP and that is why I said that the strongest drive for independence must come from the people of Scotland.
Imo it will take a popular campaign of actions such as civil disobedience, demonstrations etc. that would get the eyes of the world on Scotland, to put pressure on the UK government to do the right thing.
I hope I am wrong but I believe the SNP will still be talking about independence in five years, in another five years.
At some stage in the foreseeable future I believe we will see an independent Scotland, and a united Ireland.
Imo it will take a popular campaign of actions such as civil disobedience, demonstrations etc. that would get the eyes of the world on Scotland, to put pressure on the UK government to do the right thing.
I hope I am wrong but I believe the SNP will still be talking about independence in five years, in another five years.
At some stage in the foreseeable future I believe we will see an independent Scotland, and a united Ireland.
Rusty Nails
Country Member
That's similar to what Cameron thought when he announced the Brexit Referendum.
They are not going to allow another referendum while there is any room for error. Polls, schmolls.
Xipe Totec
Something nasty in the woodshed
They won't grant a referendum regardless of what Scotland, its government or its people do. You may not have noticed but the current Westminster government blithely passes legislation in breach of international laws and human rights. An incoming Labour government believes in order to get elected it needs to be as bad, if not worse than the one it wishes to supplant. Their attiude to Scotland is to treat it like Spain treated Catalonia (I think it was Lisa Nandy who proposed that), and civil disobedience and demonstrations (although pro Indy organisations regularly hold large-scale city-centre marches & rallies) would be a red rag.
There has already been talk of 're-drafting' the Act Of Union to mean it cannot ever be dissolved, and even rumblings about revoking devolution. The current Tory government, with its 80-seat majority would nod that through in an afternoon, likely with significant Labour support.
Asking Westminster for a referendum as a means of securing independence is no longer a viable, workable route - why do you think Nicola Sturgeon has bailed & her replacement is a choice between such hopelessly useless, toxic little candidates?
Yes - exactly that. They won't allow a referendum they might - probably would - lose.
There has already been talk of 're-drafting' the Act Of Union to mean it cannot ever be dissolved, and even rumblings about revoking devolution. The current Tory government, with its 80-seat majority would nod that through in an afternoon, likely with significant Labour support.
Asking Westminster for a referendum as a means of securing independence is no longer a viable, workable route - why do you think Nicola Sturgeon has bailed & her replacement is a choice between such hopelessly useless, toxic little candidates?
Yes - exactly that. They won't allow a referendum they might - probably would - lose.
Milzy
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t I’d let them have a referendum every 10 years.
D
Deleted member 121
Guest
That's good of you to let them...
