The Nasty Party (AKA the Tories), it's back!

[icowden]

don’t they have computers

Yes

, don’t they talk to each other?

No

They could learn a thing or too from the average online retailer.

You do realise that John Lewis's computers can't talk to Currys? Same principle. Unfortunately the government has decided that citizens data should remain siloed. So your HMRC data is entirely insulated from your health data. Not only that but each Trust is the owner / custodian of their own data. Data sharing agreements have to be brokered with individual Trusts and organisations. NHS Digital is trying to break down some of that - particularly around the sharing of critical health information. Part of the problem is that every time there is an attempt to share data, the news agencies suddenly start reporting it like it's an attack on your civil liberties. That's why Summary Care Record failed.

"How dare they share my private health information!"

Scotland is different. As is Wales. They have both gone for National Systems rather than a complex system of bids and frameworks.

 

[newfhouse]

"How dare they share my private health information!"

Few would mind data being shared for good clinical reasons within a publicly owned and managed NHS. It’s when it is given/sold to the likes of Palantir that we object.

 

[icowden]

Few would mind data being shared for good clinical reasons within a publicly owned and managed NHS. It’s when it is given/sold to the likes of Palantir that we object.

Which is reasonable. However a small vocal minority almost put paid to the Summary Care Record system. It was only the advent of Covid that forced a change whereby people had to opt out, rather than voluntarily opt in after being asked if they really wanted to use Summary Care Record. So much time was spent on ensuring people were not opted in that it has taken 13 years to get the system to something vaguely resembling useful.

 

[BoldonLad]

They'll try, but you're probably right, Mel Strudel and his DWP cronies are hacking away at the disability benefits system in preparation...
Those claiming for health and disability reasons are really going to suffer for example after the proposed scrapping of Work Capability Assessments for those claiming Universal Credit, instead putting people at the mercy of the PIP assessments which is not necessarily a work related assessment and isn't a means tested benefit anyway so will be flawed. It is a disaster waiting to happen and the extra capacity at the assessment centres when there are already reassessment backlogs still ongoing from the COVID situation, yet to be resolved will only further agitate the issue. The DWP are claiming £4bn would be saved. That's only because people such as those waiting for an operation and are living in constant pain and claim UC will be told to look for a job or face sanctions, which is the likely outcome. Thank god the waiting lists are miniscule, oh... I often wonder how long it'll be before the health minister suggests the NHS are to reuse syringes because that would save money, maybe top and tailing with someone in bed in a "world leading" attempt to reduce hospital waiting lists. Crikey, I've just thought of another. Why not take the tents that are confiscated off of the homeless recently and give them to patients at hospital so they can sleep out on hospital grounds when there are no beds available. This is also better for the environment rather than chucking the tents in land fill and will help towards our zero carbon future! Christ, maybe I am a Tory!

Don't even joke about it, you never know who may be reading this

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes

No

You do realise that John Lewis's computers can't talk to Currys? Same principle. Unfortunately the government has decided that citizens data should remain siloed. So your HMRC data is entirely insulated from your health data. Not only that but each Trust is the owner / custodian of their own data. Data sharing agreements have to be brokered with individual Trusts and organisations. NHS Digital is trying to break down some of that - particularly around the sharing of critical health information. Part of the problem is that every time there is an attempt to share data, the news agencies suddenly start reporting it like it's an attack on your civil liberties. That's why Summary Care Record failed.

"How dare they share my private health information!"

Scotland is different. As is Wales. They have both gone for National Systems rather than a complex system of bids and frameworks.

Bollocks. It is called the NHS, last time I looked, the "N" stands for National. I can "log in" to my Amazon account with one click. Logging in to NHS App (say, to order repeat medication), requires Email Address, a password (forgotten the latest "rules", but something like 12 characters minimum, mixture of letters and numbers, uppercase and lower case, and at least one special character). It is pathetic crap.

Recently, Mrs @BoldonLad required a minor procedure, it was done at a hospital approximately 10 miles from where we live, which belongs ton a different Trust. They would not give Mrs @BoldonLad access to HER OWN health data, without her filling in a form etc etc.

I am not suggesting that my GP should be able to access my tax records, but, why would it be unreasonable to link data such as Name, Address, residency, so that these details do not have to be submitted time and time again?

Yes, I get that, it is lunacy,

During my working life, I had the miss-fortune to work for at a couple of NHS sites, there were people employed to dream up reasons why data should not be shared. IT is OUR data, WE should have to right to decide if it is shared and with whom.

I was not looking for excuses why it could not be done, there are plenty of those already.

 

[BoldonLad]

Few would mind data being shared for good clinical reasons within a publicly owned and managed NHS. It’s when it is given/sold to the likes of Palantir that we object.

Exactly, and, it should not be beyond the average IT person to devise a system which allowed individuals to opt out of sharing. If they are willing to accept personal responsibility for any adverse consequences to themselves.

 

[icowden]

I am not suggesting that my GP should be able to access my tax records, but, why would it be unreasonable to link data such as Name, Address, residency, so that these details do not have to be submitted time and time again?

To be fair, those are. Most GPs, Hospitals and Community Trusts are now running software connected to the National Spine (Demographics). Your hospital *should* therefore be able just to look you up and download all your demographic data. Some hospitals are behind though. Usually because each hospital has to go out to tender and purchase software individually from whichever company they have decided can best complete the project. This costs money. Some hospitals have more of that than other hospitals.

During my working life, I had the miss-fortune to work for at a couple of NHS sites, there were people employed to dream up reasons why data should not be shared. IT is OUR data, WE should have to right to decide if it is shared and with whom.

Yep. Totally agree. However most people will not cooperate with being asked. It's better to work from an assumption that everyone is willing to share their data within the NHS, and to give an opt out for those lunatics that really want to make their lives difficult. We also need to get rid of the whole process of individual Trusts bidding for stuff and set a National contract across all hospitals, all GPs etc so the whole NHS is on the same system and the same datacentres.

 

[BoldonLad]

To be fair, those are. Most GPs, Hospitals and Community Trusts are now running software connected to the National Spine (Demographics). Your hospital *should* therefore be able just to look you up and download all your demographic data. Some hospitals are behind though. Usually because each hospital has to go out to tender and purchase software individually from whichever company they have decided can best complete the project. This costs money. Some hospitals have more of that than other hospitals.


Yep. Totally agree. However most people will not cooperate with being asked. It's better to work from an assumption that everyone is willing to share their data within the NHS, and to give an opt out for those lunatics that really want to make their lives difficult. We also need to get rid of the whole process of individual Trusts bidding for stuff and set a National contract across all hospitals, all GPs etc so the whole NHS is on the same system and the same datacentres.

Agreed, I have already said as much in another post.

Didn't "we" spend north of £14billion on trying to to do just that, back in the Blair/Brown days, if I recall correctly?

It would appear that anything which Politicians (of any party) touch turns to shoot, a sort of reverse Midas Touch. Time to stop the Pelicans meddling in the NHS, but, to do that, we may need some quality management.

But, yes, that should be the objective.

 

[icowden]

Didn't "we" spend north of £14billion on trying to to do just that, back in the Blair/Brown days, if I recall correctly?

Yep. It was roundly condemned as a failure, although some parts were very successful. The National Spine was a success as was the rollout to Community Health Trusts. Once the Government cancelled NPFIT in 2015 all of the progress that had been made on Community Trusts was lost as it relied on all Trusts using the same BT Hosting. All Trusts had to commission new software (or their own renewal of the existing) and hosting. So everything went backwards again.

The failure was with acute hospitals and the difficulties with implementing Cerner Millennium. Most Trusts now seem to be taking EPIC which is a US based software. Luckily I can't see any issues with storing all our health data in software owned and designed by an American company...

 

[cookiemonster]

I can see this ending well.

 

[newfhouse]

I can see this ending well.

View attachment 5008

Meanwhile, people that inherit half a million pounds will likely have their tax reduced or even abolished.

I know we’ve done this before but the Tories and their enablers truly are heartless scum, aren’t they?

 

[AndyRM]

The whole thing is worrying:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67439675

 

[newfhouse]

The whole thing is worrying:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67439675

No reputable employer will want to be involved with forced labour. I’m all for helping people into work and giving them useful experience but moving fitness assessments further away from qualified medical practitioners and into the likes of Atos or Serco is a horrific prospect.

I suspect that this will come to very little, given the short time between now and the election, and that it is mostly yet another attempt to shore up the unthinking bigot vote.

 

[icowden]

I suspect that this will come to very little, given the short time between now and the election, and that it is mostly yet another attempt to shore up the unthinking bigot vote.

I agree. This is essentially a "we are making the lazy scum that don't have a job get a job" line. Fails to look at *why* people might be on benefits or unable to seek a job or to comprehend that making people sicker isn't going to help them start working. They might as well say "fark you - if you can't be arsed to get a job go die of cancer" or somesuch.

 

[AndyRM]

I agree. This is essentially a "we are making the lazy scum that don't have a job get a job" line. Fails to look at *why* people might be on benefits or unable to seek a job or to comprehend that making people sicker isn't going to help them start working. They might as well say "fark you - if you can't be arsed to get a job go die of cancer" or somesuch.

Chance would be a fine thing.