The Queen / The Monarchy

[Deleted member 28]

You honestly don't think that you're not, or have never been excluded from certain opportunities by how you speak, where you went to school, and or by not knowing how to 'behave' in certain social situation.?

The 'class' system is very much alive, and disturbingly well in this country.
If you haven't noticed you've really not been paying attention.
Is it just coincidence that so many public school types are in parliament, and other positions of power and influence.??

The 'royal' family and their hangers on, help perpetuate this whole system of privilege by birth..

So we're back to jealousy then, you feel excluded from things you don't want to be.

Any direct examples you've experienced?

 

[Pale Rider]

No goalposts shifted, by me at least.

I have noticed your tenancy not to be able to conduct a conversation with several people at once. You'll have forgotten by now, by a couple of days ago you were attributing to me comments that were not made by me.

When challenged you pivoted into victimhood as a means of deflection.

Yet another post all about me and nothing to do with the topic.

You have my answers, several times, to your questions.

Given your total recall of my posts, I'm surprised you can't recall those.

Now, do you have anything more to say about the monarchy?

Clue: that means a post about the monarchy which says nothing about any CC member.

 

[BoldonLad]

Cabinet positions.
High judiciary.
Directorships of multinationals.

Off the top of me 'ead for a start.

Not 'entirely' excluded from, but very very much harder for you to have attained, that kind of power and influence, than those from 'well connected' backgrounds.

OK. I will buy that. "People like me" are most definitely not excluded from such positions (Judiciary may be an exception, not sure), but, I would agree, more difficult to climb that high, because, we have further to climb. Perhaps not in the present Government, but, there have been Cabinet Ministers in past Governments who started off "below" even my starting point, and, I believe there are one or two "in waiting", in what will probably be the next Government, who were not born with the proverbial "silver spoon" in their mouth.

Still no examples from @multitool I notice.

 

[mudsticks]

So we're back to jealousy then, you feel excluded from things you don't want to be.

Any direct examples you've experienced?

Why do you think this is about me??

Or about my 'jealousy' FFS

How many times ?? - this forum is about politics - the bigger picture - how we run societies - not about our individual experiences - although they can be informative.

I'm not excluded by perceptions of my 'class' I'm generally considered 'well spoken' - because I'm from an educated background.

Because of the way I can present - and sound - I do get accepted into spaces which others find it harder to access - and I can have influence there - on behalf of others.

But the fact is many won't be 'allowed' in, or made to feel welcome, or given a leg up.

I have been excluded from certain situations and opportunities because of my gender, but I've generally managed to work around that, challenge it even.

But that's another story altogether.

 

[Pale Rider]

(Judiciary may be an exception, not sure

There's a judge sitting in our patch today who I know to be from humble beginnings.

He did have to qualify as a solicitor advocate and then a barrister, but most criminal judges are former barristers.

On t'other hand, the selection process has always been a little opaque, even to those involved in it.

My friendly judge told me all the written work was carried out anonymously - candidate A, candidate B, etc.

Which at least means that part of the process cannot be influenced by the old boy network.

 

[BoldonLad]

There's a judge sitting in our patch today who I know to be from humble beginnings.

He did have to qualify as a solicitor advocate and then a barrister, but most criminal judges are former barristers.

On t'other hand, the selection process has always been a little opaque, even to those involved in it.

My friendly judge told me all the written work was carried out anonymously - candidate A, candidate B, etc.

Which at least means that part of the process cannot be influenced by the old boy network.

Interesting.

One of my nieces "made it" as far as trying to become a Barrister, but, stumbled because of the Financial implications of "pupillage" (if that is how you spell it). She simply went around the problem, now Company Secretary of a rather large organisation.

 

[Pale Rider]

Interesting.

One of my nieces "made it" as far as trying to become a Barrister, but, stumbled because of the Financial implications of "pupillage" (if that is how you spell it). She simply went around the problem, now Company Secretary of a rather large organisation.

Yes, to become His Honour, Judge Boldon Lad the biggest hurdle you would have to cross is becoming a barrister.

After that, it's a reasonably open field, although white middle aged male barristers complain they are being excluded due to a bias in favour of female and ethnic minority candidates.

I've chatted with hundreds of barristers over the years and most seem pretty ordinary to me.

However, I reckon you do need some financial support to get started, not millions, but parents who can assist you.

This would make reaching the Bar a harder climb for someone whose family literally has nothing.

 

[Bromptonaut]

There's a judge sitting in our patch today who I know to be from humble beginnings.

He did have to qualify as a solicitor advocate and then a barrister, but most criminal judges are former barristers.

On t'other hand, the selection process has always been a little opaque, even to those involved in it.

My friendly judge told me all the written work was carried out anonymously - candidate A, candidate B, etc.

Which at least means that part of the process cannot be influenced by the old boy network.

I've seen other selections done on that basis ie the paperwork seen by the panel was anoymised.

Unfortunately the examples of what they'd done and how they met the criteria were, as required, specific.....

Took me seconds to work out who three of the four candidates were. The fourth required a few seconds of googling.

 

[multitool]

Yet another post all about me and nothing to do with the topic.

Ah, the victimhood again.

But still no reasons laid out for supporting a monarchy.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes, to become His Honour, Judge Boldon Lad the biggest hurdle you would have to cross is becoming a barrister.

After that, it's a reasonably open field, although white middle aged male barristers complain they are being excluded due to a bias in favour of female and ethnic minority candidates.

I've chatted with hundreds of barristers over the years and most seem pretty ordinary to me.

However, I reckon you do need some financial support to get started, not millions, but parents who can assist you.

This would make reaching the Bar a harder climb for someone whose family literally has nothing.

My niece (and her two sisters) clearly could not be excluded on at least one of those characteristics, but, with Coal Miner and Shipyard Worker grandfathers, and Software Engineer (father), Civil Servant (mother) their pedigree was not deemed "working class" enough for the Oxbridge caper, but, they survived.

 

[Bromptonaut]

There's a judge sitting in our patch today who I know to be from humble beginnings.

He did have to qualify as a solicitor advocate and then a barrister, but most criminal judges are former barristers.

On t'other hand, the selection process has always been a little opaque, even to those involved in it.

My friendly judge told me all the written work was carried out anonymously - candidate A, candidate B, etc.

Which at least means that part of the process cannot be influenced by the old boy network.

Although it's possible to become a Judge having been a solicitor or, in a few cases, an academic lawyer, the position remains that the Bar is the 'finishing school' for most of the Judiciary at least at senior levels - beyond Circuit Judges.

My previous career in the MoJ meant that I met any number of them though pretty well all were Civil or Tribunal rather than Criminal. They varied from the absolutely down to earth chaps (and chapesses) from humble backgrounds to baronets and scions of banking families who came via the Eton>Cambridge route.

Most, at least in recent years, were, at least out of their court persona, fairly ordinary though a few had 'oddities' about their personality.

One of the most senior, having latterly been in a Tribunal related role, referred to his robed/wigged colleagues as 'The Uniform Branch'.

 

[Badger_Boom]

Interesting.

One of my nieces "made it" as far as trying to become a Barrister, but, stumbled because of the Financial implications of "pupillage" (if that is how you spell it). She simply went around the problem, now Company Secretary of a rather large organisation.

That sounds pretty similar to the experience of my partner back in the early 90s. She was convinced that the problem was less about money, background or sex, than not having any relatives in the business who could offer help or put in a good word. She also got around the problem and has done well, but she still regrets not going further in the law.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I said the monarchy exists by public consent.

When was the election and when’s the next chance I get to vote?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Why do you think this is about me??

Or about my 'jealousy' FFS

How many times ?? - this forum is about politics - the bigger picture - how we run societies - not about our individual experiences - although they can be informative.

I'm not excluded by perceptions of my 'class' I'm generally considered 'well spoken' - because I'm from an educated background.

Because of the way I can present - and sound - I do get accepted into spaces which others find it harder to access - and I can have influence there - on behalf of others.

But the fact is many won't be 'allowed' in, or made to feel welcome, or given a leg up.

I have been excluded from certain situations and opportunities because of my gender, but I've generally managed to work around that, challenge it even.

But that's another story altogether.

OK, maybe not YOU personally then as I assume you class yourself as more 'acceptable ' than some others (whatever the f*ck that means?) but I sense a dislike and loathing for the upper classes yet people are complaining they can't have access to it?

Make your minds up.

 

[Unkraut]

If you bothered to find out what other nations were saying about us during the coronation, they were laughing at us.

From my vantage point here I would say the attitude to the monarchy is mixed. On the one hand you get news pieces and documentaries that to my mind carry an undertone of mockery - I think the pomposity is the cause of this, the pomp and circumstance fitting a country that rules a quarter of the globe, only that ceased to be true 75 years ago but the trappings remain. You also get those who regard it as a symbol of privilege. Whilst there is truth in that, I can't take it too seriously if from anyone of the hard left, as in former East Germany the communist leadership were also privileged and not democratically accountable to the public. Indeed that system was imposed by a dictator who had more personal power than any English monarch since Magna Carta!

On the other hand friends have been impressed with the coronation and the precision with which it was carrried out. Something out of the ordinary. When the queen died the news presenters wore black as a mark of respect, not something I would have expected. I think the queen commanded respect regardless of a person's views on the institution of monarchy itself. It is also true that Charles was favourably received just before the coronation, and especially his attempts at speaking German!

I went off the UK monarchy years ago, the royal dysfunctional family, but I would still be wary of what might replace it if it were abolished. In an age of unending change it is nice to have something that remains fairly constant, representative of its long (unique?) historical continuity.