The Queen / The Monarchy

[mudsticks]

OK, maybe not YOU personally then as I assume you class yourself as more 'acceptable ' than some others (whatever the f*ck that means?) but I sense a dislike and loathing for the upper classes yet people are complaining they can't have access to it?

Make your minds up.

People dislike the privilege and unequal access to power and resources that the 'upper classes' claim as their birthright, and to which they maintain exclusive access to through leveraging their privilege.


Hence for example, you will get totally self serving incompetents (such as Johnson) thinking that he is a fit person to run a country, just because his upbringing and schooling has taught him to think that way.

There are of course many other examples of his type, being overconfident for no good reason.

At the other end of the scale you will get those from more humble backgrounds, growing up believing that all this exercising of unearned privilege, is totally right and normal, because they have been brought up in this state sanctioned system of inequality - of which the royal family is a potent symbol and maintainer.

So you will get people, who would in fact be far better suited to say government office, on account of their intelligence and experience going "Oh I couldn't possibly do that" because they've been brought up to believe it's not 'their place'.

And all of the above means that we end up with the wrong people in power, and that the whole show is not run nearly as well as it could be.

 

[All uphill]

From my vantage point here I would say the attitude to the monarchy is mixed. On the one hand you get news pieces and documentaries that to my mind carry an undertone of mockery - I think the pomposity is the cause of this, the pomp and circumstance fitting a country that rules a quarter of the globe, only that ceased to be true 75 years ago but the trappings remain. You also get those who regard it as a symbol of privilege. Whilst there is truth in that, I can't take it too seriously if from anyone of the hard left, as in former East Germany the communist leadership were also privileged and not democratically accountable to the public. Indeed that system was imposed by a dictator who had more personal power than any English monarch since Magna Carta!

On the other hand friends have been impressed with the coronation and the precision with which it was carrried out. Something out of the ordinary. When the queen died the news presenters wore black as a mark of respect, not something I would have expected. I think the queen commanded respect regardless of a person's views on the institution of monarchy itself. It is also true that Charles was favourably received just before the coronation, and especially his attempts at speaking German!

I went off the UK monarchy years ago, the royal dysfunctional family, but I would still be wary of what might replace it if it were abolished. In an age of unending change it is nice to have something that remains fairly constant, representative of its long (unique?) historical continuity.

A balanced view @Unkraut , that will never catch on!

I like your point about the pomp reflecting an age and a world that is long gone. Other European countries seem to have better remodelled their monarchies to more closely fit the post colonial present.

I recognise that I will not see the end of this institution in my lifetime and would settle for a pared down royalty that shows more modesty, humility and compassion. It would be nice if they more closely reflected the rest of us; maybe one of them could marry a person of colour? I wonder how that would go. Oh wait

 

[multitool]

Enjoying somebody else's anachronistic pomp doesn't mean one wants it for one's own constitutional system or social structure.

People go on holiday to all sorts of places over the world to see tribal life. Doesn't mean they envy it.

 

[the snail]

I said the monarchy exists by public consent.

Funny, I don't remember being asked. Did I miss a referendum or something?

 

[Pale Rider]

When was the election and when’s the next chance I get to vote?

The most likely unlikely scenario is the monarchy become so unpopular - lots more people want abolition than for them to remain - that an electable, mainstream party thinks it's a vote winner to run with a flagship policy of getting rid of the monarchy.

Current polling suggests we are a long, long way from that situation.

I reckon that a party simply saying they would hold a referendum on the monarchy would be electoral suicide.

Which is not to say it cannot, or will not happen.

The monarchy only exist by the consent of the people, if that consent is withdrawn, the monarchy is gone.

 

[Pale Rider]

Funny, I don't remember being asked. Did I miss a referendum or something?

As above.

I know we live in an age of instant gratification, but you are not going to get rid of the monarchy overnight.

It's an uphill task, but you will first need to convince the majority to think as you do.

Do that, then some sort of vote on the matter would be on the horizon.

 

[multitool]

Current polling suggests a marked change in the attitude of young demographic. If the demographic that succeeds it feels the same, and the youth moving to their 40s maintain their distaste for the monarchy then the game is up.

I suspect that as we move further away from age of empire and those (like Pale Rider) who were socialised into belief in monarchy die off that this change will happen.

 

[Deleted member 28]

People dislike the privilege and unequal access to power and resources that the 'upper classes' claim as their birthright, and to which they maintain exclusive access to through leveraging their privilege.


Hence for example, you will get totally self serving incompetents (such as Johnson) thinking that he is a fit person to run a country, just because his upbringing and schooling has taught him to think that way.

There are of course many other examples of his type, being overconfident for no good reason.

At the other end of the scale you will get those from more humble backgrounds, growing up believing that all this exercising of unearned privilege, is totally right and normal, because they have been brought up in this state sanctioned system of inequality - of which the royal family is a potent symbol and maintainer.

So you will get people, who would in fact be far better suited to say government office, on account of their intelligence and experience going "Oh I couldn't possibly do that" because they've been brought up to believe it's not 'their place'.

And all of the above means that we end up with the wrong people in power, and that the whole show is not run nearly as well as it could be.

Right then, there are 'some people ' that despise and loathe other people that are born into 'privilege ' because they aren't, however, they want the things that these very people they despise for themselves and mix in those circles?

Not you obviously because you are 'accepted ' apparently.

 

[Deleted member 28]

They are doing harm. They are the apex of one of the most unequal nations in Europe.

They are the standard bearers of unearned privilege.

Which leads me on to this...



They don't.

This is just an example of British exceptionalism, and is something we say about ourselves.

If you bothered to find out what other nations were saying about us during the coronation, they were laughing at us.

Right then you little prick, tell me what harm or financial disadvantage having a Monarchy in this country has done to directly affect you?

If you have any balls at all it won't be difficult to explain.

Don't reply with some long drawn out convoluted answer full of 4 syllable words that don't impress anyone, just plain simple words telling me why you have such a hatred for them.

 

[mudsticks]

Right then, there are 'some people ' that despise and loathe other people that are born into 'privilege ' because they aren't, however, they want the things that these very people they despise for themselves and mix in those circles?

Not you obviously because you are 'accepted ' apparently.

Nope they dislike the inequality that privilege promotes.

That some people should have so much power, opportunity, and resources to hand, whilst others have so little of any of those, and suffer as a result.

It's not about 'me' it's about 'us' it's about society as a whole.

Is that really so hard to grasp.??

Or are you being deliberately obtuse??

 

[Deleted member 28]

You seem bitter.

Do I?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Nope they dislike the inequality that privilege promotes.

That some people should have so much power opportunity and resources to hand, whilst others have so little of either, and suffer as a result.

Is that really so hard to grasp.??

It is yes, I was sh*t at football as a kid, other kids became professional footballers should I feel there is an inequality in that?

Some people have parents with their own businesses that can provide a better opportunity for their kids than I could for mine, is that 'fair'?

Take it a step up, Millionaire business owners can provide more for their kids than even someone like you who is 'accepted ' (you still haven't explained WTF that's supposed to mean, by the way) so is that 'fair '?

Are you a commie?

 

[Pale Rider]

Are you a commie?

Reds under the (vegetable) beds!

These goddamn commies get everywhere.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

The most likely unlikely scenario is the monarchy become so unpopular - lots more people want abolition than for them to remain - that an electable, mainstream party thinks it's a vote winner to run with a flagship policy of getting rid of the monarchy.

Current polling suggests we are a long, long way from that situation.

I reckon that a party simply saying they would hold a referendum on the monarchy would be electoral suicide.

Which is not to say it cannot, or will not happen.

The monarchy only exist by the consent of the people, if that consent is withdrawn, the monarchy is gone.

From that I’ll infer there was no election.

If there wasn’t an election to start the monarchy then it must have come about by another method and I’d suggest it did not remotely involve the consent of the people. It’s a sign of their intense and insatiable greed that royal houses have for centuries convinced the common citizens of this country to accept the gross inequality that monarchy brings.

We, the vulgar, get to ooh and ah at them as they wave from a distant balcony or golden carriage, bedecked in the finest tailoring and jewellery, as if that should be sufficient compensation for the billions of pounds they have been stealing from us.

For anyone so minded, please don’t mistake any of what I write for envy. I simply find the entire monarchical system an inequitable farce.

 

[multitool]

Right then you little prick, tell me what harm or financial disadvantage having a Monarchy in this country has done to directly affect you?

If you have any balls at all it won't be difficult to explain.

Don't reply with some long drawn out convoluted answer full of 4 syllable words that don't impress anyone, just plain simple words telling me why you have such a hatred for them.

I don't have a hatred for them....and it isn't just about what effect they have on me, you selfish little ballbag.

I'm afraid I'm not going to pander to your low literacy levels. You are old enough to have done something about it, but ironically your failure at school can probably be traced back to low aspirations, which in turn could be linked to class system oppression.

Of course, it might just be that you are a little bit dim.