The UK’s broken asylum system

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What is the legal route for, say, an Iranian woman wanting asylum in the UK?
Currently the suicide route in this case i believe, so if i'm correct they have to go to an consulate or representive of the uk, ask for asylum and wait for their application to be approved so the iranian secret service has all the time to detect and detain them.
Why is it a discussion for another day? It's perfectly reasonable to mention it here as the subject is asylum, which this convention covers. And, yes, when I lived in Finland, you needed to show your ID card when you went to the doc. Same here in Asia. The first thing the receptionist asks, either in Finland or here, is to see my ID card.
I don't have a problem with the convention system itself, however if we discussing why the system is broken or how to make it better, i don't think it helps a lot.
Yes, i think the uk is the only country i have lived in where you don't need an id for much things and where a bank card is also seen as id. I personally do not care much about the need or demand to show id, but i can imagine why other people disagree although some of the arguments like ''it invades my privacy'' are a bit silly if you see that same people also using smart phones with google and apple services. But what i don't understand why people would risk an boat crossing that could potentially kill them for it.

On the other hand if you look at how China is using id, phone apps etc. to have near total control of movements of people it's clear to see what the danger of such laws can be. on the other hand i don't think Chinese govemernt would have any less control without said laws just an other way to execute it.
 
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glasgowcyclist

glasgowcyclist

Über Member
Currently the suicide route in this case i believe, so if i'm correct they have to go to an consulate or representive of the uk, ask for asylum and wait for their application to be approved so the iranian secret service has all the time to detect and detain them.

You can’t claim UK asylum at an embassy or consulate abroad.

You must physically be in the UK to do it.

That’s why people take irregular routes to get here.
 
Currently the suicide route in this case i believe, so if i'm correct they have to go to an consulate or representive of the uk, ask for asylum and wait for their application to be approved

What do you mean by the 'suicide route'?

AIUI Asylum in the UK can only be claimed when physically in the country. It cannot be claimed or processed outwith the UK, for example at an Embassy.
 
You can’t claim UK asylum at an embassy or consulate abroad.

You must physically be in the UK to do it.

That’s why people take irregular routes to get here.


The goverment website (this one https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum ) says this ''You should apply when you arrive in the UK or as soon as you think it would be unsafe for you to return to your own country. Your application is more likely to be refused if you wait.'' so that implies you can ask for asylum outside of the uk. It also says later on under eligibility your claim might not be approved if ''travelled to the UK through a ‘safe third country’' so they claim you're changes of being accepted would be smaller but it still doesn't completely rule out someone calling in and then buying an ferry/eurotunnel plane ticket to the uk.

I still don't understand why you would want to take those efforts to come to the uk, but that's an other discussion.

What do you mean by the 'suicide route'?
I litterly wrote what i meant right after, that i was wrong is an second.
 

All uphill

Well-Known Member
@dutchguylivingintheuk said "Currently the suicide route in this case i believe, so if i'm correct they have to go to an consulate or representive of the uk, ask for asylum and wait for their application to be approved so the iranian secret service has all the time to detect and detain them."

So there's your answer as to why some asylum seekers get on boats to reach the UK. Add to that family here and speaking good English and I understand why the person I'm thinking of made the journey.
 
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Cirrus

Active Member

I think you’re correct, the Germans do have ID cards, along with most of the EU counties. The UK is lagging behind.
 
The goverment website (this one https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum ) says this ''You should apply when you arrive in the UK or as soon as you think it would be unsafe for you to return to your own country. Your application is more likely to be refused if you wait.'' so that implies you can ask for asylum outside of the uk. It also says later on under eligibility your claim might not be approved if ''travelled to the UK through a ‘safe third country’' so they claim you're changes of being accepted would be smaller but it still doesn't completely rule out someone calling in and then buying an ferry/eurotunnel plane ticket to the uk.

Couple of things here.

I guess English is not your first language which may account for misunderstanding but nothing you've quoted, on my reading, implies you can apply outside the UK.

You should apply when you arrive; that will cover anybody at immediate risk arriving on a small boat or hiding in a lorry, of if they qualify to enter, at the airport.

As soon as you think it would be unsafe for you to return to your own country; that would apply where returning has become dangerous while you are here. A supporter of the recently ousted government of Niger, presently her studying, would be an example.

Somebody in Paris and without leave to enter the UK will not get as far as a plane/ferry or Eurostar.

The airline will decline boarding - they're incentivised to do this by being responsible for returning those who arrive without the right stamps etc.
At the Gare du Nord (or Calais port/Shuttle) the UK Border Force guys over there under the juxtaposed controls won't let you through.
 
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All uphill

Well-Known Member
If anyone here isn't doing it already I'd suggest volunteering with an organisation that works with people seeking asylum. You might be surprised.

The variety of situations and backgrounds is astonishing, but once you've seen them as human beings (and very often courteous and polite humans with obvious skills) it's difficult to apply the lazy stereotypes, and much easier to start to think that they could be assets in an aging population with low productivity.

Go on, test the opinions you currently have!
 
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glasgowcyclist

glasgowcyclist

Über Member
The goverment website (this one https://www.gov.uk/claim-asylum ) says this ''You should apply when you arrive in the UK or as soon as you think it would be unsafe for you to return to your own country. Your application is more likely to be refused if you wait.'' so that implies you can ask for asylum outside of the uk.

I think you are misunderstanding that. What the bolded part refers to is people who are, for whatever reason, in the UK and become aware or realise that returning to their home country would be unsafe for them.

It also says later on under eligibility your claim might not be approved if ''travelled to the UK through a ‘safe third country’' so they claim you're changes of being accepted would be smaller but it still doesn't completely rule out someone calling in and then buying an ferry/eurotunnel plane ticket to the uk.

You can’t “call in” for asylum from abroad!


I still don't understand why you would want to take those efforts to come to the uk, but that's an other discussion.

Because there’s no safe route provided by the government. People have to find their own way here.
 

ebikeerwidnes

Senior Member
One of the problems with applying for asylum when you arrive is that if you arrive having come through 'safe' countries then you should have applied for asylum in the first safe country that you went through

hence, as we are an island anchored off the Western edge of the continent, then the only way you can do it is to arrive by bota via international waterway and not stopping en-route - or to fly

both of which require additional checks and money

Also - if I understand it correctly, there used to be ways of applying in foreign embassies and consulates
The government withdrew this route in most countries so now you HAVE to come to the UK - but not through a safe country

i.e. the EU should take them all because to get to us you have to go through an EU country first

Oh - and - the EU countries take a lot more than us
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
As is so often the case you say this stuff without any sort of research or thought.

If, and it's a big if, they destroy their documents, and by no means all have passport, why might they do so?

Do you seriously believe that somebody from, say, Albania, can after, burning their documents, pass off as Afghan?

It's a simple statement of fact - 'virtually none' of the boat people turn up with documents.

There's no need for 'research or (much) thought'.

As regards your questions, you tell me, you're the one who knows all about it.

It must also be true that having no documents makes people much more difficult to process - unless you simply roll out the red carpet to everyone.

I’m not sure whether you’re stating your own belief here, or that you think this is a legal obligation.

Can you clarify, please?

Still playing games, I see.

Never trust a Scotsman not to ask a disingenuous question.
 
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