The UK’s broken asylum system

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Is the job black market here any different? I guess the lack of standard ID card may make a difference.

I think the main difference between the uk and other countries is the tax system, which enables the very easy setup of grey companies, meaning they report higher losses so they have to pay lower taxes, mind you i say easier, it's not like it's non-existent in Europe just a bit more complicated.

They will use any reason to excuse the deaths. They have their own political issues to consider. And who can blame them for wanting to focus on their own agendas.
If they really wanted to stop the deaths they could do it, but it would be very unpopular in France.

Well kind of disappointing the like of sun daily fail etc. predicted a sovjet style goverment if Starmer would win and all we seem to have gotten is more of the same, with just other rich party sponsors getting privilege's like standing behind Starmer in the same room, like it's a thing to brag on about to you where there during the whole speech and stayed awake or something..

Not that i would want a sovjet style goverment but at least something else then the tories would have been nice, the impression i get now it's just as bad as the tories just with a other name.

As always there is a number of ways of framing this debate.

The people smugglers are:

Vile criminals who endanger and abuse vulnerable people.

The only hope of vulnerable people who need to escape persecution, and do that at considerable risk to themselves.

It's also often assumed that everyone who comes to here or to europe does that with the same reason, and anyone tabling the idea that might not be the case must be a racist. While in reality, if society if different so are the people coming here so there is good and bad people in between them doing checks and making an working system would be a good start. Also if we want to stop a flow of people like farage favorite pictures to expand a problem that really doesn't need expanding, the start would be knowing why those people got here in the first place. The sad story about all those 20+ people who died in a truck years ago was based on a lie, and could and would have been prevented if there was a program to let them come and learn here in a legal way. Doesn't have to be free either, they pay those smugglers huge amounts too, so what wrong with asking a amount but actually get them here in arranged flights accommodation etc.

But yes i agree people smuggles are vile criminals but also opportunistic, if the opportunities are reduced so is the problem these criminals create, they will be forced to find other (criminal) activities.

 

[Bazzer]

I think the main difference between the uk and other countries is the tax system, which enables the very easy setup of grey companies, meaning they report higher losses so they have to pay lower taxes, mind you i say easier, it's not like it's non-existent in Europe just a bit more complicated.

The UK tax system has nothing to do with setting up companies, grey or any other colour you wish to use. Entities would generally be treated by HMRC on the basis by which they present themselves, i.e. sole trader, partnership, charity, etc.
If it is a UK registered company or LLP, the creation of that entity is through Companies House.

 

[Ian H]

The UK tax system has nothing to do with setting up companies, grey or any other colour you wish to use. Entities would generally be treated by HMRC on the basis by which they present themselves, i.e. sole trader, partnership, charity, etc.
If it is a UK registered company or LLP, the creation of that entity is through Companies House.

True, but it is stupidly easy to set up a company to trade fraudulently.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/your-home-address-been-hijacked-27768738

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

The UK tax system has nothing to do with setting up companies, grey or any other colour you wish to use. Entities would generally be treated by HMRC on the basis by which they present themselves, i.e. sole trader, partnership, charity, etc.
If it is a UK registered company or LLP, the creation of that entity is through Companies House.

If i say the tax system allows the setup off grey companies that does not in any shape, way or form mean it's relevant how a company is created or incorporated. That's an detail, it's about the bigger picture meaning that after that creation of a company which you have explained almost as good as google AI can without anybody asking has nothing to do with it, it's very easy to trade in an grey area meaning that the way the company generates income might not be an accurate representation of reality. In the context of current topic it could be that people working for the company are not payed via the legal systems like they are supposed to but with cash in hand for example. And/or any given method of misrepresenting, it's easyer with the current uk system. (which again does not mean it's not happening or completely impossible in europe)

 

[Bazzer]

True, but it is stupidly easy to set up a company to trade fraudulently.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/your-home-address-been-hijacked-27768738

I don't disagree.
During the years of the Yugoslav conflict, I came across companies registered in West London that appeared to be connected to various war lords or their subordinates in that region. The companies looked to be either the means to buy more arms, or more likely, to ensure the individuals concerned were not going to be busking the streets, should the conflict not go their way.
It would not surprise me to learn that there is hundreds of millions of pounds held by registered companies in the UK or it's dependencies, that can linked to conflicts or repressive regimes throughout the world.
Company compliance, other than it's taxation compliance and obligations, would probably be better handled by a dedicated unit, because illegitimate activities can cover such a broad spectrum; from activities involving trading standards, to those involving specialist teams within the police. Those who wish to take advantage will be well aware of this. They are also probably aware that the money laundering regulations can easily be circumvented.

 

[Bazzer]

If i say the tax system allows the setup off grey companies that does not in any shape, way or form mean it's relevant how a company is created or incorporated. That's an detail, it's about the bigger picture meaning that after that creation of a company which you have explained almost as good as google AI can without anybody asking has nothing to do with it, it's very easy to trade in an grey area meaning that the way the company generates income might not be an accurate representation of reality. In the context of current topic it could be that people working for the company are not payed via the legal systems like they are supposed to but with cash in hand for example. And/or any given method of misrepresenting, it's easyer with the current uk system. (which again does not mean it's not happening or completely impossible in europe)

If you write about setting up companies, I suspect most people would immediately think of incorporation. That has nothing to do with the tax authorities.
It is unclear to me what you mean by a grey area. The example you state of people not being paid "via the legal systems" happens in both corporate and non transactions. Business owners may be incorporated as a means of trying to protect their personal assets should the business fail, but that does not stop some of them paying workers cash in hand. However, non incorporated businesses will do the same. An unscrupulous business owner doesn't change their spots whether or not their business is incorporated.
Will you please explain how it is easier to misrepresent in "any given method" [in] the "current UK system", when compared to other European systems.

 

[icowden]

Will you please explain how it is easier to misrepresent in "any given method" [in] the "current UK system", when compared to other European systems.

There is no requirement to provide any sort of proof of identification. Thus you can pick a random address and register a company at companies house. Then you raise loans against the company, extract all the money, dissolve the company and you are untraceable having given a fake name and address. It's the method used by all those tourist tat shops in London and the American Candy shops. They are all fronts where there are very complex company transactions going on in the background.

 

[BoldonLad]

There is no requirement to provide any sort of proof of identification. Thus you can pick a random address and register a company at companies house. Then you raise loans against the company, extract all the money, dissolve the company and you are untraceable having given a fake name and address. It's the method used by all those tourist tat shops in London and the American Candy shops. They are all fronts where there are very complex company transactions going on in the background.

Didn’t Cameron promise to “sort” this? Needless to say, nothing much, if anything, has been done. Personally I have no great expectation that the current government will do any better.

 

[Bazzer]

There is no requirement to provide any sort of proof of identification. Thus you can pick a random address and register a company at companies house. Then you raise loans against the company, extract all the money, dissolve the company and you are untraceable having given a fake name and address. It's the method used by all those tourist tat shops in London and the American Candy shops. They are all fronts where there are very complex company transactions going on in the background.

As I said up thread, I don't disagree that it is easy to set up a company for less than legitimate trading purposes, but our Dutch contributor seems to want to blame HMRC and gave an example that could apply to both corporate and non corporate entities.
As to raising loans and then disappearing, yes the policing of Companies House is inadequate, but what blame is attached to lenders given the known inadequacies in the registration process? (And yes, I am aware of what happens with the tat shops).

 

[BoldonLad]

Another boat sinks, eight dead https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2ln150287yo

 

[Ian H]

This really is getting ridiculous... and alarming.

Starmer under pressure to distance UK from Italy’s hard-right immigration plans​

Backbenchers and NGOs criticise decision to explore how country has cut migrant numbers at Rome talks
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-uk-from-italys-hard-right-immigration-plans

 

[AuroraSaab]

Germany has reinstated border control too so that's an end to Schenghen for now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ope/germany-land-border-control-schengen-intl

 

[Fab Foodie]

Germany has reinstated border control too so that's an end to Schenghen for now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ope/germany-land-border-control-schengen-intl

Appeasing the hard-right is never a good look....

 

[Rusty Nails]

Appeasing the hard-right is never a good look....

With a Labour government we are lucky we will never be guilty of that, and also that we are out of the EU which is increasingly heading in that direction.

Rule Brittania.

 

[Mr Celine]

Germany has reinstated border control too so that's an end to Schenghen for now.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...ope/germany-land-border-control-schengen-intl

Not really. I drove through the existing check on the Austria Germany border earlier this year. One bored polizei leaning on his car watching everyone drive past at normal speed.

Last time I drove to France (2022) the checks on the Belgian border were far more extensive. Two bored gendarmes and all traffic had to slow to a crawl.