Time for a PEP talk

[Ian H]

Political parties appease factions all the time.

Do you think that Natwest was wrong to sack Rose?

Banks need to be properly regulated, not subject to ad hoc interventions at the whim of politicians.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Banks need to be properly regulated, not subject to ad hoc interventions at the whim of politicians.

Agreed to the first part. But bosses will still be subject to the sack if they cock up.

While there is ownership or part ownership by governments they will intervene, sometimes on a whim and sometimes for genuine reasons, and not always purely business related.

Do you think Rose deserved the sack for her breaking the confidentiality of a customer, and being economical with the actualite to a BBC reporter?

 

[Pale Rider]

Having done that Dame wossername cocked up and/or was shopped. That's why she had to resign.

I'm still waiting for any evidence that people being debanked for their politics rather than residence, regulation or cock up is a serious issue.

While you may regard him as a gobshite he's a messiah to many of your fellow righties.

Dame Rose had, in the last few weeks, been appointed by Sunak to his Business Council think tank.

It was due to discuss provision of bank accounts in the next week or so - an agenda. presumably set long before Farage.

It would have been awkward for Sunak for Rose still be a member of his council

Thus it suited him for her to be sacked by NatWest, because it made it easier to sack her from his council, which he did.

In that respect, Rose's sacking was a Tory plot, albeit one which was very much in response to events.

You've mentioned several times not having loads of other debanked folk laid out in front of you.

Those complainants have been advised by Uncle Nigel to do as he did and put in subject access requests.

Bound to take time, especially as it's likely the banks have been subject to a deluge of requests.

Even if complainants get a helpful response in a few weeks, it's likely not many will want to go public.

It appears debanking has been a thing for a while before Farage got stuck into it.

Remember. the Business Council was due to discuss it.

We haven't had loads of cases made public before Farage, so there's no reason to think those people will now want to tick the publicity box.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Once she'd had to resign, and I think by late last week her position was untenable, it's not surprising she lost a public appointment that was effectively contingent on being CEO of Big Bank PLC.

I'm not well enough onto the detail of Business Think Tank and access to bank accounts to be able to comment. Is there a link that would help me understand this stuff?

If somebody says to me that X,Y & Z are plotting/conspiring for outcome A my first thought is to look at X, Y & Z. Usual conclusion is they couldn't work together well enough to plot their way out of a wet paper bag. Not necessarily that they could not if they applied themselves together (though that's often the case) but just they'd struggle to agree that today is....

As I've said repeatedly I'm not closed to the idea of accounts being closed capriciously, just short of real evidence.

Let's see if Nigel's efforts unearth anything.

 

[Deleted member 159]

FOI reveals 1000 accounts per day are being closed

90,000 people are classified as political exposed

'energy secretary Grant Shapps revealed that he and his family had been victims of debanking because he is a politically exposed person. Shapps reportedly said that one bank had demanded 18 years’ worth of payslips before it would let him be a customer.'

That is ridiculous

Tip of the iceberg

Anti fraud is spending £100 for every £1 pound laundered through British banks. Highly ineffective

Yet are closing small UK business accounts that deal with cash. Banks need to be reigned in with a powerful customer charter



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/30/uk-banks-closing-more-than-1000-accounts-every-day

 

[Mr Celine]

'energy secretary Grant Shapps revealed that he and his family had been victims of debanking because he is a politically exposed person. Shapps reportedly said that one bank had demanded 18 years’ worth of payslips before it would let him be a customer.'

That is ridiculous

What about Michael Green, did he have problems too? Or Corinne Stockheath, did she have better luck as a woman?

 

[Bromptonaut]

FOI reveals 1000 accounts per day are being closed

90,000 people are classified as political exposed

'energy secretary Grant Shapps revealed that he and his family had been victims of debanking because he is a politically exposed person. Shapps reportedly said that one bank had demanded 18 years’ worth of payslips before it would let him be a customer.'

That is ridiculous

Tip of the iceberg

Anti fraud is spending £100 for every £1 pound laundered through British banks. Highly ineffective

Yet are closing small UK business accounts that deal with cash. Banks need to be reigned in with a powerful customer charter



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/30/uk-banks-closing-more-than-1000-accounts-every-day

Shapps has a documented history of business dealings that might be thought to sail close to the wind - as alluded to by @Mr Celine. Which is not to say the banks' requirements are not over the top but he's not exactly John Doe working in a Northampton shoe factory either.

The lady in Ukraine's situation isn't as egregious as it looks. She opened an account for a business but then used it for personal/charitable purposes. Doesn't seem to have told her bank she was outwith the UK or update her address and fails to respond to texts.

 

[Deleted member 159]

More details are now required to understand the reasons for closing over 300000 accounts per year.

A transparent open process of stopping banks arbitrarily closing down accounts.

 

[newfhouse]

When I was a bit younger than I am now I got thrown out a couple of pubs for being an obnoxious dick*, and told never to return. Which regulator should I complain to? Would the Culture Minister take up my case, do you think? Surely everyone should have the right to buy a drink without their behaviour being taken into account.

* Hard to believe, I know.

 

[Bromptonaut]

More details are now required to understand the reasons for closing over 300000 accounts per year.

A transparent open process of stopping banks arbitrarily closing down accounts.

Once you have the reasons you can understand why 30k accounts are being closed.

Until you have the reasons use of the word 'arbitrarily' may be misplaced.

Casting my mind back nearly 30 years National Westminster closed my current account without warning. I'd not used it for a while, the last item was a car loan that had been paid off. I suspect the reason was utterly mundane; they wanted to reuse the number.

 

[the snail]

Once you have the reasons you can understand why 30k accounts are being closed.

Until you have the reasons use of the word 'arbitrarily' may be misplaced.

Casting my mind back nearly 30 years National Westminster closed my current account without warning. I'd not used it for a while, the last item was a car loan that had been paid off. I suspect the reason was utterly mundane; they wanted to reuse the number.

But the banks can't divulge personal information, so how would we know the reasons for closing an account? The banks exist to make profits, if there's no profit from your account, why would they keep it open. I'm pretty sure farage is legally entitled to a basic bank account though.

 

[Bromptonaut]

But the banks can't divulge personal information, so how would we know the reasons for closing an account? The banks exist to make profits, if there's no profit from your account, why would they keep it open. I'm pretty sure farage is legally entitled to a basic bank account though.

I'd expect a structured investigation into reasons for account closure to, at the most basic, use anonymised data and classify closures by reason. There might be subsets within reasons. Accounts closed for reasons around residence etc would need to be divided so that those where the customer was in the EU were id'd.

A deeper investigation might use anonymised account histories which inquiry staff could analyse. It might also, indeed it would be derelict if it did not, invite people who have had their accounts closed to make their own submissions.

Such things have been done before.

Not insoluble. Unless of course the government that was keen to get into this while Farage had the headlines decide in the Spring they'd rather forget.

 

[Pale Rider]

Shapps has a documented history of business dealings that might be thought to sail close to the wind - as alluded to by @Mr Celine. Which is not to say the banks' requirements are not over the top but he's not exactly John Doe working in a Northampton shoe factory either.

The lady in Ukraine's situation isn't as egregious as it looks. She opened an account for a business but then used it for personal/charitable purposes. Doesn't seem to have told her bank she was outwith the UK or update her address and fails to respond to texts.

You are going to be very busy boy if you are going to attempt to talk away every case of debanking.

There's bound to be some thieves and vagabonds among the debanked, but it looks like many may have a point.

 

[multitool]

"looks like", "may"

 

[Deleted member 49]

Bit of background on the unbanked

View: https://twitter.com/RichardJMurphy/status/1685916431760683008?t=n8nc2oU6ZvMbKckCJ-No5g&s=19