Trial by jury

[glasgowcyclist]

773 out of 1000 people is a lot. 773 out of 10,000,000 is a trivial figure

In the report I cited up thread, the Chief Inspector of Prisons found, in July this year, that 130 inmates – 20 per cent of those eligible for release – in Pentonville Prison had been held illegally after their release date in the last six months.

That is just one prison, with an illegal detention rate of 20% in the first half of 2025.

That’s a serious issue and rather far from your position that it…

is simply not the case at all

 

[AuroraSaab]

That's just for starters. Last time Labour tried such a scheme it was £5.3bn of our money (down the toilet) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/uk_politics/6642339.stm - and that was back in 2007 prices

I'm not against ID cards in principle but crikey that's a hell of a lot of money wasted. They have to be workable and value for money and I'm not sure that what they deliver will be either. I'd rather spend that money to sort other stuff out first.

 

[CXRAndy]

Everytime the government gets your data, they lose it to hackers. Now think all of your data stored in one place, field day for hackers.

Thats before we even think of the control aspect of the government

 

[spen666]

Is 773 more, or less, than one example?

Its a number not an example.


If I say 10 million men raped women is that an example just because it is a number?

 

[Pblakeney]

Its a number not an example.


If I say 10 million men raped women is that an example just because it is a number?

Not if you say so. If records show that the rapes have happened then, yes.
I guess we are going to courtroom semantics because you simply won't admit that prisoners have been detained past their release date.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I guess we are going to courtroom semantics

It's his favourite refuge in defeat, before abandoning the thread and pretending it never happened.

 

[First Aspect]

It's his favourite refuge in defeat, before abandoning the thread and pretending it never happened.

I think all Spen is saying is that a datum needs context. The context here would shed light on whether the numbers of mistaken early or late releases being reported is high, or low. If you don't know the overall rate, and without knowledge of how this has been historically, or how it compares to other jurisdictions, it is next to meaningless.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I think all Spen is saying is that a datum needs context. The context here would shed light on whether the numbers of mistaken early or late releases being reported is high, or low. If you don't know the overall rate, and without knowledge of how this has been historically, or how it compares to other jurisdictions, it is next to meaningless.

Nah. He has shifted from his absolute position that the illegal detention of prisoners beyond their release date ‘simply isn’t the case’, to now wanting not only the officially reported numbers involved but specific examples.

It’s just what he does.

 

[Pblakeney]

I think all Spen is saying is that a datum needs context. The context here would shed light on whether the numbers of mistaken early or late releases being reported is high, or low. If you don't know the overall rate, and without knowledge of how this has been historically, or how it compares to other jurisdictions, it is next to meaningless.

I work on the premise that the number of prisoners being mistakenly released early or detained past their date should be zero.
The whole point of this discussion is the outrage at two prisoners being released by mistake while the numbers at both ends of the scale are grossly under reported. And have been for decades.

 

[First Aspect]

I work on the premise that the number of prisoners being mistakenly released early or detained past their date should be zero.
The whole point of this discussion is the outrage at two prisoners being released by mistake while the numbers at both ends of the scale are grossly under reported. And have been for decades.

Fair enough. It's a bit like road traffic statistics isn't it. We have the safest roads in the world more or less, but 5 people die on the road each day.

 

[Pblakeney]

Fair enough. It's a bit like road traffic statistics isn't it. We have the safest roads in the world more or less, but 5 people die on the road each day.

Yeahbut surely knowing when someone is to be let out of a prison shouldn't be too difficult to keep on top of.
Puts immigration into stark perspective when we can't even control prison input/output.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yeahbut surely knowing when someone is to be let out of a prison shouldn't be too difficult to keep on top of.
Puts immigration into stark perspective when we can't even control prison input/output.

One would think so. Which doesn’t encourage confidence in the system.