Rusty Nails
Country Member
You can get rid of those now with ointment.
Trial by jury
- Thread starter Ianonabike
- Start date
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You can get rid of those now with ointment.
Ian H
Squire
I sold them on.
craigwend
Do you Remember
I've done jury service, twice.
The first time we sat and waited, and waited, and waited before having one hour in court
The second time was marginally more productive, but only marginally.
Another twice, first time sat waiting... At the last day of the ten send home at lunch time as not going to get a case on the last 1/2 day. The ushers told us that at one point they had not got a case to trial as they all plea bargain on the day, get a reduced sentence and having spent months on remand with better conditions.
Second time (10 years later?) Day 3 got a case done by the Friday - 'guilty' (all could have been done in one focused day). We were excused the second week as there were that many jurors spare sitting about...
Needs a shake up as seems a big scam from both sides, though personally feel it needs to exist, but with less wiggle room on the last day to 'play the system'
icowden
Shaman
Jury selection is a huge problem. You have to be in the selection for 2 weeks. Your employer doesn't have to pay you, and you get paid up to £64 a day. That means the equivalent of someone earning about £16k.
This means that the first thing that anyone earning a decent wage is going to do, is try to get out of it. This is *especially* true of criminal crown courts where, if you are selected, you could be off work for a significant portion of time. The reasons that you can be excused or deferred are:
The end result is that Juries tend to be people who have low paid jobs, or don't need to earn money instead of being a random sample of citizens.
This means that the first thing that anyone earning a decent wage is going to do, is try to get out of it. This is *especially* true of criminal crown courts where, if you are selected, you could be off work for a significant portion of time. The reasons that you can be excused or deferred are:
- Health conditions or upcoming operation
- Caregiving - e.g. new parent or have ill or disabled relative
- pre-booked holidays or exam
- Students who depend on employment during a vacation may get sympathy
- If you work for a small business that it would cause unusual hardship
- If you don't understand English
- If you are in the armed forces and it would create an operational issue.
The end result is that Juries tend to be people who have low paid jobs, or don't need to earn money instead of being a random sample of citizens.
OP
OP
Ianonabike
Esquire
I've got multiple outs, on top of which being stuck in a room with a small group of people day after day is something I'd find very claustrophobic.
My idea of a horror story:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40946653
'We spent almost two years sitting on a jury'
Beebo
Guru
That is madness.
The Lucy Letby trial was 10 months. But 2 years is crazy.
How can anyone be expected to deal with that.
icowden
Shaman
The Eye has been arguing for some time that complex fraud cases shouldn't be tried by jury as the issues are many and complex, and the trials can run for a very long time - thus you don't get accountants and finance directors in the Jury. You get low paid civil servants, waitresses, etc who may not be the best people to decide on someone's guilt in a very complex finance trial.
Toshiba Boy
New Member
Was called for Jury service decades ago, when I was in my very early 20's.
Sat on two cases, 1st involved GBH.
I volunteered to be Jury Foreperson 2nd trial (youngest on the Jury by some margin) and had to stand up and deliver the "Not Guilty" verdict to one charge and "Guilty" to the 2nd charge.
Found the whole process very interesting.
Sat on two cases, 1st involved GBH.
I volunteered to be Jury Foreperson 2nd trial (youngest on the Jury by some margin) and had to stand up and deliver the "Not Guilty" verdict to one charge and "Guilty" to the 2nd charge.
Found the whole process very interesting.
briantrumpet
Shaman
I can't remember what the payment per day was back in 1982, but I can't remember it being too bad (at least to an 18-year-old who might have got £2 per hour). I suspect the daily payments haven't even kept pace with inflation though, knowing how starved of cash the court system is.
icowden
Shaman
I presume you are in America? This can't happen in the UK as there is no such thing as a plea bargain.
spen666
Über Member
Be interested to see that run as an excuse and the reaction of the court
spen666
Über Member
I have been excused from Jury service, and have the letter nicely saved at home for future attempts to call me for Jury service - a combination of my current and previous employment roles and my activities outside of work means that it would be very difficult to find a case I could sit on where there would not be a risk of the appearance of bias
Its a slightly unique combination of factors. The fact that I am a lawyer is on its own not a bar to being on a jury anymore. It used to be until the rules were changed a few years ago
Its a slightly unique combination of factors. The fact that I am a lawyer is on its own not a bar to being on a jury anymore. It used to be until the rules were changed a few years ago
spen666
Über Member
Whether it was true then is a matter of speculation, but as now objections by the defence to jurors has to be backed up with reasons, such objections are rare. Its 37 years since the objection rule was changed.
prosecution can still object to juror without giving a reason
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/jury-ve...defence right,juror without giving any reason.
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