The Crofted Crest
Active Member
You mean Trump will be an X-president?
Twitter under Musk....
- Thread starter Fab Foodie
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ebikeerwidnes
Senior Member
I do wonder how long he will last
Theyt will use him for what they can get in every way
but that may end up being more difficult than they think - he is not as dumb as he sometimes appears and could turn on them
unless, of course, he has more control than we are being told
If he ends up having actual responsibility for something and he fails - which is easy to do under trump - then it will be intersting to see how he survives
Theyt will use him for what they can get in every way
but that may end up being more difficult than they think - he is not as dumb as he sometimes appears and could turn on them
unless, of course, he has more control than we are being told
If he ends up having actual responsibility for something and he fails - which is easy to do under trump - then it will be intersting to see how he survives
On a tangent, the prospect of Musk donating large sums to Reform has me in two minds as I can see a positive. The positive being that it might cause a degree of outrage and start more people questioning the power of the unelected mega-rich, maybe starting a reaction in "I'm not going to have my vote determined by some mega wealthy billionaire nobody voted for ...". Some of the mega wealthy do seem to be exerting far too much political power these days (and nt just Musk).
And I do wonder how helpful it would actually be for Reform. My suspicion is that their increasing vote is as much because of disatisfaction with the current political classes and they are seen as a "disruptor" (those voting for them focusing on the current incumbents/disrutor aspects rather than any policies).
But guess work or maybe hopes on my part.
Ian
And I do wonder how helpful it would actually be for Reform. My suspicion is that their increasing vote is as much because of disatisfaction with the current political classes and they are seen as a "disruptor" (those voting for them focusing on the current incumbents/disrutor aspects rather than any policies).
But guess work or maybe hopes on my part.
Ian
icowden
Squire
My personal view on Reform is that I think they are too narrow in their politics to be effective.
They had a huge increase in votes in the last election as they essentially took the votes of the more right wing, frothing gammons away from the Conservative Party. It doesn't matter how much they spread their appeal, the centrists won't vote for Farage, they will tend to go Lib Dem or Labour - but only if Labour are centrist enough.
If Starmer's Labour is a disaster it could prove very positive for Ed Davey.
C R
Über Member
Reform don't need to be effective at anything other than wooing the disenchanted to vote for them.
By all measures Farage is probably one of the most ineffective constituency MPs in human history in terms of serving his constituents. Will that lack of effectiveness cost him his seat? I very much doubt it. Looking at vote intention, they are effective at what counts for them.
icowden
Squire
Whilst that's true, they are only effective at getting a certain type of disenchanted to vote for them. Usually the ones that want Sadiq Khan to go back where he came from, chop down the ULEZ cameras and run cyclists off the road whilst shooting anyone who arrives across the channel in a small boat...
monkers
Legendary Member
There is this talk of the left and of the right, and the desire for a centre party. While it's true that there is no UK wide centre party, the nearest to it is the Green Party of England & Wales. Tories and Reform are further right, Labour and Lib Dem are centre right. The Greens are the only choice now for the left and libertarians, and as stated they are nearest the centre, unless you live in Wales. If you are in Scotland, you have the SNP
Out of interest who created that diagram? I ask only as eg if a political Party (or their think tanks) created it it could include bias to position themselves.
Ian
icowden
Squire
monkers
Legendary Member
It is.
A thing to note is that the GPEW are a bottom up grassroots party where all policy is made only by ordinary members voting at conference. Consequently, they are a party where their position on the political compass hardly changes, whereas others, especially Labour can be seen to move about. The shift from Corbyn where Labour were further left than Green to where they are now under Starmer is remarkable given the short space of time.
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icowden
Squire
Is it? Everyone knew that Corbyn was somewhere around Citizen Smith. That's why he was unelectable and hence the change to Starmer.
Similarly everyone knows Badenoch is a right wing loon thus the Tory party has lurched further and further to the right, losing a large swathe of core supporters.
Clowns to the left of us, Jokers to the right....
View: https://youtu.be/ln7Vn_WKkWU?si=rXIKvnTEaTopg8Ah
monkers
Legendary Member
I can't agree with all of this Ian.
2019 GE - Corbyn - 32.1% - epic failure
2024 GE - Starmer - 33.7% - landslide
Swing determines outcome. Starmer's result beat Corbyn by 0.8% in terms of required swing at a time when the Tories were perhaps at their most vulnerable. The commonly held view being that Starmer didn't need to work to win.
Similarly ...
2017 GE - May - 42.3%
2017 GE - Corbyn - 40%
These numbers don't show Corbyn as unelectable. It shows that old folk are more reliable in turning out to vote than younger folk.
And to compare May with Johnson ...
2017 GE - May - 42.3%
2019 GE - Johnson - 43.6%
In the UK, at times of election or the EU never-end-dumb the decisions are narrow. There are a number of factors including the nature of FPTP, an increasingly hostile audience to politics, a decreasing amount of talent standing (possibly due to said hostility), the skill of electioneering agents like Cummings, and the corruption around certain politicians, especially those with entrenchment in the media.
We mustn't lose sight of the fact that we should be turning out at election time to vote for the best candidate to represent our interests. However that requirement is now surpassed by the media instruction of who might make the better prime minister.
UK democracy is in tatters. Brexit did not make parliament any more sovereign or supreme.
I really can't stand Farage politically or personally. It must be recognised though that he has navigated a way to break the two horse race that I desire. He isn't in politics for the good of the public or the country though, and that really is a problem.
Except he (and his sidekicks) felt they needed to make loads of commitments that almost certainly mean they can't address the needs of the country or at best mean the more vulnerable suffer whilst those is "broader shoulders" are not impacted as much. And they illustrated this fairly soon after getting power pretty well their 1st economic action taking the winter Fuel allowance from many who were already struggling.
And even having won they still seem to feel the need to make undertakings which mean they are even less able to resolve needs of the country should their initial plans not go 110% to plan.
(Sorry, going a bit off-topic now but for me Starmer is the disappointment of the decade even though I didn't vote for him).
Ian
