Universal credit: Should the temporary increase be kept for longer?

[Craig the cyclist]

So because you've nothing better to offer...your in favour of removing 20 pounds from the most vulnerable ?

No, I am in favour of properly costed and implemented payments. I assume you are in favour of just paying out and out, £20 UC uplift indefinitely, unlimited furlough payments forever, £15 minimum wage?

And hey, let's face it, if Boris and Rishi had said they were keeping the uplift, then you and others would be saying they have u-turned and lied about being fiscally responsible!

 

[Bromptonaut]

Once again, I agree the levels of benefits etc need looking at.

However the removal of a time limited temporary raise is not a cut.

Even as a long term claimant it must seem like one if you lose it after 18 months.

If you claimed after April 2020 it really is a cut.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

If you claimed after April 2020 it really is a cut.

No, it was temporary uplift for everyone, including new claimants. The fact you never had the lower rate before is irrelevant. If you claimed after April 2020 you were never on a permanent higher level.

 

[Deleted member 49]

No, I am in favour of properly costed and implemented payments. I assume you are in favour of just paying out and out, £20 UC uplift indefinitely, unlimited furlough payments forever, £15 minimum wage?

And hey, let's face it, if Boris and Rishi had said they were keeping the uplift, then you and others would be saying they have u-turned and lied about being fiscally responsible!

Properly costed lol...you voted for the Tories ain't going to happen.Why not....let's have a bit of trickle down.Or are you just happy all the money staying up at the top ?

 

[Rusty Nails]

I was confused, now, I am doubly confused.

The original topic was Universal Credit.

Money laundering and tax avoidance were mentioned

The rules on claiming/calculating UC were mentioned (but, not explained)

No Politicians were mentioned, or, as far as I am aware, did any post on here

Where was blame pointed at an "other" group, or, indeed any "group" ?

Sorry for your confusion.

My post was directed at your point that you believed that, in FF's post, 'whataboutery' was a better choice than 'othering'.

It is not just about politicians using the tactic but also people, needing to have people to blame, in this case those nasty scroungers.

Whether FF was right in his view is neither here nor there, but his use of the word was correct.

 

[BoldonLad]

Sorry for your confusion.

My post was directed at your point that you believed that, in FF's post, 'whataboutery' was a better choice than 'othering'.

It is not just about politicians using the tactic but also people, needing to have people to blame, in this case those nasty scroungers.

Whether FF was right in his view is neither here nor there, but his use of the word was correct.

The only person who mentioned "scroungers" was @Adam4868 , and, he was most certainly NOT blaming them for anything.

So, sorry, it is no more clear to me, unless you mean that Adam4868 was "othering".

 

[Rusty Nails]

The only person who mentioned "scroungers" was @Adam4868 , and, he was most certainly NOT blaming them for anything.

So, sorry, it is no more clear to me, unless you mean that Adam4868 was "othering".

As I said, I was referring to your suggestion about FF's choice of words. I mean no more or less than disagreeing with your opinion on it, and I believe Adam4868's choice of the word was a sarcastic dig at the words of another poster, and not judgemental.

 

[AndyRM]

No, it was temporary uplift for everyone, including new claimants. The fact you never had the lower rate before is irrelevant. If you claimed after April 2020 you were never on a permanent higher level.

You know fark all about the UC/benefits system.

And I apologise if that seems insulting, but it is the truth.

 

[Bromptonaut]

No, it was temporary uplift for everyone, including new claimants. The fact you never had the lower rate before is irrelevant. If you claimed after April 2020 you were never on a permanent higher level.

What you say is I suppose true in a legalistic or strictly rational sense.

If however you lost your livelihood at the start of the pandemic and (a) the cost of gas/electric on your card meter has gone up; (b) your weekly shop costs more and (c) your benefit has been reduced by approx £90/month it's difficult not to see the loss as a cut.

 

[Fab Foodie]

"Othering is a phenomenon in which some individuals or groups are defined and labeled as not fitting in within the norms of a social group. It is an effect that influences how people perceive and treat those who are viewed as being part of the in-group versus those who are seen as being part of the out-group.``'"

From google...

would "whataboutery" not have been a better fit?

I don’t think so in this case. The right likes to have groups to demonise, to punch down, to keep people angry and focussed about. Far easier to use an old trope like ‘benefit scroungers’ as the robbers of the public purse whilst turning a blind eye to the much bigger issue of tax avoidance, loopholes’ or denying councils millions in tax revenues by bunging the party a few notes….

 

[Craig the cyclist]

You know fark all about the UC/benefits system.

And I apologise if that seems insulting, but it is the truth.

I clearly don't care about the insults from some random on the internet, I know what I know.

But hey, you accept @Bromptonaut does know, and he says that actually I am right.

What you say is I suppose true in a legalistic or strictly rational sense.

There is no need for stupid pointless insults, I do understand the system, I have worked for years with people claiming all sorts of benefits and have helped them claim everything they are up for. So wind your neck in. I have said many times, the system needs changing quickly, but it can't just be done like this.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I clearly don't care about the insults from some random on the internet, I know what I know.

But hey, you accept @Bromptonaut does know, and he says that actually I am right.

@Craig the cyclist has, I'm sure inadvertently, quoted my post in such as way as to completely flip its meaning.

Whatever the semantics of a return to the status quo ante, having c£412 as your UC payment on 08-09-21 and c£325 on 08-10-21 will be taken by the claimant as a cut.

 

[BoldonLad]

I don’t think so in this case. The right likes to have groups to demonise, to punch down, to keep people angry and focussed about. Far easier to use an old trope like ‘benefit scroungers’ as the robbers of the public purse whilst turning a blind eye to the much bigger issue of tax avoidance, loopholes’ or denying councils millions in tax revenues by bunging the party a few notes….

I understand about demonising groups, just didn't see where anyone was doing that, least of all the poster who used the term "scroungers".

Don't think it is an unpleasant trait confined to the right either.

 

[AndyRM]

I clearly don't care about the insults from some random on the internet, I know what I know.

But hey, you accept @Bromptonaut does know, and he says that actually I am right.


There is no need for stupid pointless insults, I do understand the system, I have worked for years with people claiming all sorts of benefits and have helped them claim everything they are up for. So wind your neck in. I have said many times, the system needs changing quickly, but it can't just be done like this.

I hadn't read their comment until just now.

Having had 3 "job coaches" in the last 18 months, I know how the game works.

 

[Bromptonaut]

What I've noticed is some people seem to be on a basic £75 a fortnight, yet others in an outwardly similar position seem to do a great deal better.

Ignoring anything towards rent the basic rate for over 25s in pre Universal Credit legacy benefits is £74.70/week, paid fortnightly. The equivalent in Universal Credit is £328.87 paid monthly. There are additions if there's a partner or children on the claim.

There are also additions, mostly related to ill health. There are quite a few in legacy benefits and in combination they could give a weekly amount as high as £198 (plus PIP) albeit you'd be in pretty poor shape to get that.

UC is much more restrictive; the max additional amount for health related conditions is £343.63/month.