War with Russia

[BoldonLad]

The issue isn't about giving up but about being realistic of the challenges. For over 80 years we've been in the US's pocket when it comes to the defence of Europe. Suddenly, we've got a US leader hellbent on changing the landscape of the defence of the entire continent for political gain back home. Increasing the defence budget by a couple of billion pounds is not in itself going to improve the defence of Europe and build critical industry. If the US were to pull out of Europe that puts us at risk in the short and medium term against another unpredictable neighbour who wields like 6000 nuclear weapons. I think it should make us here in Europe think about whether relying on another superpower which is increasingly unpredictable and who might make further demands is right for Europe's security and instead come together for a structured, unified defence plan of Europe by Europeans because even with the EU, France has this idea and Italy want to do it this way and Poland.... etc It's fractured, disorganised and needs a unified and sovereign European defence strategy, which may come at some considerable cost.

Thought that was more or less what I said, in precis form:

If Europe were collectively to increase defence spending, and, scale back dependance on USA, wouldn't this (sensibly) mean also scaling back dependance on USA Arms manufacturers?, which is hardly a win for Trump. Of course, such a change may take years to have significant impact.

Followed up with the observation that, if we cannot realistically defend ourselves, rather than spend a lot of money on an attempt doomed to failure, why not just not do it at all:

So, if we can’t defend ourselves, why not just quit trying, and spend the defence budget on something else?

But, given that I am 78yo, I am unlikely to be around for whatever is decided, or, more likely whatever we slip into, by default.

 

[HMS_Dave]

Thought that was more or less what I said, in precis form:



Followed up with the observation that, if we cannot realistically defend ourselves, rather than spend a lot of money on an attempt doomed to failure, why not just not do it at all:



But, given that I am 78yo, I am unlikely to be around for whatever is decided, or, more likely whatever we slip into, by default.

Being unlikely and giving up are two different things. I never said we should simply grab our ankles and spread our cheeks to Russians like we have with the yanks, But rather the systematic change required to defend the continent after 80 years of US dominance in that area is going to be exceptionally difficult. When the Romans left Britain, it was called the dark ages for a reason. Comically bad analogies aside, my point stands on the challenges both socially and politically the continent will face in the medium to long term.

 

[BoldonLad]

Being unlikely and giving up are two different things. I never said we should simply grab our ankles and spread our cheeks to Russians like we have with the yanks, But rather the systematic change required to defend the continent after 80 years of US dominance in that area is going to be exceptionally difficult. When the Romans left Britain, it was called the dark ages for a reason. Comically bad analogies aside, my point stands on the challenges both socially and politically the continent will face in the medium to long term.

I wasn't disagreeing with you 🙂

But, I do realise, there is little or no chance of world peace 🙂

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Being unlikely and giving up are two different things. I never said we should simply grab our ankles and spread our cheeks to Russians like we have with the yanks, But rather the systematic change required to defend the continent after 80 years of US dominance in that area is going to be exceptionally difficult. When the Romans left Britain, it was called the dark ages for a reason. Comically bad analogies aside, my point stands on the challenges both socially and politically the continent will face in the medium to long term.

I agree with you but the point we shouldn't be missing is that the Russians aren't in a good position either, 90% of their previously on paper great weapons have turned out to be 50% of hat they should have been at best. They lost a lot of troops so in other words they aren't in a good condition either especially considering a war against Nato would mean the weapons now used against them by soldiers with 6 months experience would then be used against them by soldiers with years of experience.
If putin got a bloody nose from Ukraine, attacking a Nato country is going to hurt him more.
What i think is the biggest risk of this whole ''peace deal thing'' is that Trump might get the stupid idea(by lack of a better word) to sell weapons to Russia in which case obviusly it become a hole other ballgame.

 

[HMS_Dave]

I agree with you but the point we shouldn't be missing is that the Russians aren't in a good position either, 90% of their previously on paper great weapons have turned out to be 50% of hat they should have been at best. They lost a lot of troops so in other words they aren't in a good condition either especially considering a war against Nato would mean the weapons now used against them by soldiers with 6 months experience would then be used against them by soldiers with years of experience.
If putin got a bloody nose from Ukraine, attacking a Nato country is going to hurt him more.
What i think is the biggest risk of this whole ''peace deal thing'' is that Trump might get the stupid idea(by lack of a better word) to sell weapons to Russia in which case obviusly it become a hole other ballgame.

Or to get Russia to stay out of a conflict in the event of a US/China escalation, as one friend put it to me tonight. That's an itch the US is keen to scratch. Who knows?

 

[C R]

So it was all Ukraine's fault for not bending over and taking Putin's dïck, Trump dixit. If only Zelenski enjoyed giving head to Putin as much as Trump does the war would have been over by now.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

 

[AndyRM]

So it was all Ukraine's fault for not bending over and taking Putin's dïck, Trump dixit. If only Zelenski enjoyed giving head to Putin as much as Trump does the war would have been over by now.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

I've got a horrible montage of blowjob imagery in my head now. Cheers for that!

 

[C R]

I've got a horrible montage of blowjob imagery in my head now. Cheers for that!

Sorry, I'm pissed off at these ärseholes turning everything to xit.

 

[Ian H]

Here's the Morning Star quoting the Telegraph.
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/trumps-bid-ukraines-resources-reveals-harsh-truths-about-war

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Or to get Russia to stay out of a conflict in the event of a US/China escalation, as one friend put it to me tonight. That's an itch the US is keen to scratch. Who knows?

All possible with Trump but i get the impression China backed off a bit and trump seems to be a bit more china friendly compared to his first term.

I've got a horrible montage of blowjob imagery in my head now. Cheers for that!

you have those AI tools to improve the mental image lol

 

[AndyRM]

Sorry, I'm pissed off at these ärseholes turning everything to xit.

Entirely reasonable. Apologies.

 

[HMS_Dave]

The guy is about a 1000 years old now, got to be. Some say he played conkers with Boldonlad after witnessing Simon de Montfort's balls being stuffed into his mouth following his defeat at Evesham. But at least Bernie knows what America used to represent. These dïckhead MAGA types think they are going back to the good old days, but those days never existed. Instead, we are heading for a brand new brutal future.

Anyway, for those among us with tiny attention spans, he makes his point in the first 50 seconds.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

So it was all Ukraine's fault for not bending over and taking Putin's dïck, Trump dixit. If only Zelenski enjoyed giving head to Putin as much as Trump does the war would have been over by now.

War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

This is so wrong, in so many ways. It suggests you believe everything you have been told by the Western leaders and mass media about Russia and Putin, i.e. the same people who told you their "truth" about Gaza, like the stories that 1) Russia is weak, and YET 2) Russia is going to invade Europe, after conquering the whole of Ukraine.

For all his numerous faults, Trump is not wrong to "give away" the blinding truth obvious to everybody with an independent mind that Ukraine, even with the West's help short of starting WW3, can't win, can't recover lost land, and so has to stay neutral for the foreseeable future - a Russian demand that if given would have avoided this whole sorry saga in the first place 3 years ago.

And since this outcome was always inevitable due to the asymmetry of might and resolve, Trump is perfectly correct that Zellensky has seriously mismanaged his country, heavily abetted and aided by Trump's country notwithstanding.

The problem people here and so many Western "elites" have, is having believed the Neocon's lies for so long, they are still parroting them as truth and reality despite what is happening. Wake up!!

 

[C R]

This is so wrong, in so many ways. It suggests you believe everything you have been told by the Western leaders and mass media about Russia and Putin, i.e. the same people who told you their "truth" about Gaza, like the stories that 1) Russia is weak, and YET 2) Russia is going to invade Europe, after conquering the whole of Ukraine.

For all his numerous faults, Trump is not wrong to "give away" the blinding truth obvious to everybody with an independent mind that Ukraine, even with the West's help short of starting WW3, can't win, can't recover lost land, and so has to stay neutral for the foreseeable future - a Russian demand that if given would have avoided this whole sorry saga in the first place 3 years ago.

And since this outcome was always inevitable due to the asymmetry of might and resolve, Trump is perfectly correct that Zellensky has seriously mismanaged his country, heavily abetted and aided by Trump's country notwithstanding.

The problem people here and so many Western "elites" have, is having believed the Neocon's lies for so long, they are still parroting them as truth and reality despite what is happening. Wake up!!

Ignorance is strength.

 

[CXRAndy]

Ignorance is strength.

When you are called up, I expect you are going to be right there hailing

Over the top lads

Your ignorance will likely be your death