War with Russia

[matticus]

Talk about what?
Either you give Putin what he wants or you fight him for it. That's it.

Basically, Monsieur Macron says to Mr Putin:

We have seen your sabres/guns, and seen how you love killing Ukrainians with them. (You have also seen what our LAWs do to your equipment. We have plenty of them still in our cupboards.)

May I remind you of this map showing the guns of our various friends [shows NATO deployment, and some US carriers, stealth bombers etc] and the tech we have [shows British/US forces recrtuiment video, followed by some test nuke launch videos].

Now, would you please consider moving your guns out of some/most/all of Ukraine, or we will consider showing you what our guns can do? merci.
___________________________
Or put another way, much the same as every other peace negotiation in history.

 

[The Crofted Crest]

Hatred is morally wrong except when it is directed against someone you passionately disagree with.

So you shouldn't hate people unless you hate them and your morals are flexible.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

We've put our names forward to house refugees in our home but the hoops we're being asked to jump through!

You mean the safeguarding checks? Imagine the uproar if no checks were done and the likes of Fred West et al started rehoming young, single, female refugees. Of course there has to be checks.

We did expect once on the list, we would be provided with names and categories of refugees wanting to come to the UK but no, you have to find your own refugees and you're given no help with that.

You will be, you aren't being asked to go to Ukraine and pick someone up.
"If you don’t currently know anyone whom you wish to sponsor, you may wish to get in touch with charities, faith groups or local community organisations who are starting to make connections between individuals."

No help at all.

Apart from a whole bloody website, contacts, £350 and security checks on the individuals going to your home.

It's one of those, you'll have to do it despite our government's resistance rather than with their assistance.

No, you are just finding things to moan about.

Please tell us, how would you have done it from scratch?

 

[matticus]

 

[PaulB]

You mean the safeguarding checks? Imagine the uproar if no checks were done and the likes of Fred West et al started rehoming young, single, female refugees. Of course there has to be checks.

You will be, you aren't being asked to go to Ukraine and pick someone up.
"If you don’t currently know anyone whom you wish to sponsor, you may wish to get in touch with charities, faith groups or local community organisations who are starting to make connections between individuals."

Apart from a whole bloody website, contacts, £350 and security checks on the individuals going to your home.

No, you are just finding things to moan about.

Please tell us, how would you have done it from scratch?

Flipping heck, I didn't realise it was all so wonderful.

Please tell us of your fabulous experience navigating yourself around the faultless system we have in place. Website! Behave yourself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/15/britons-support-ukrainian-refugees-homes

 

[BoldonLad]

You mean the safeguarding checks? Imagine the uproar if no checks were done and the likes of Fred West et al started rehoming young, single, female refugees. Of course there has to be checks.

You will be, you aren't being asked to go to Ukraine and pick someone up.
"If you don’t currently know anyone whom you wish to sponsor, you may wish to get in touch with charities, faith groups or local community organisations who are starting to make connections between individuals."

Apart from a whole bloody website, contacts, £350 and security checks on the individuals going to your home.

No, you are just finding things to moan about.

Please tell us, how would you have done it from scratch?

Welcome back @Craig the cyclist , long time no see.

 

[icowden]

Please tell us, how would you have done it from scratch?

I think a good approach would be to let those that want to come to the UK, come to the UK. Take their biometrics and contact details as they come in - as much as is feasible *then* let them work through the visa process. Usually you get people off the sinking ship before deciding whether to let them stay.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Flipping heck, I didn't realise it was all so wonderful.

Please tell us of your fabulous experience navigating yourself around the faultless system we have in place. Website! Behave yourself.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/mar/15/britons-support-ukrainian-refugees-homes

I didn't say it was wonderful, but which bit are you actually moaning about?

The fact that there will be some element of safeguarding built in which may take some time but mean the hosts and the refugees will be safer and less likely to be exploited, or the bit that means the government would like to know that you are actually taking in some Ukranian refugees and not just making up a Ukranian sounding name to claim £350 free cash (which you would no doubt moan about in 6 months when the NAO point out there is £100m lost to false claims?)

Personally I am not claiming the £350 for the tiny bit I have ended up doing to help the situation.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I think a good approach would be to let those that want to come to the UK, come to the UK. Take their biometrics and contact details as they come in - as much as is feasible *then* let them work through the visa process. Usually you get people off the sinking ship before deciding whether to let them stay.

Good idea. I assume you will be signing up for anyone at all to come and live in your house with only retrospective checks in place?

Actually, how many people apart from Paul and me are actually offering a room/house/caravan/holiday home to a Ukranian refugee?

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Oh, and don't think it has all been sorted out, and some of it is really shoddy. Some councils are planning to remove single discounts on council tax for instance, absolutely terrible, and it will hopefully be written in the 'contract' that this will not happen. They need to get a grip of that side of things really quickly, same with any benefits that may be paid getting effected by the £350 (which I think they have done, but it could be clearer)

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Let us get some things straight here... It is Russia who are the aggressors, using attacks on civilians, including hospitals, using siege tactics on cities, using cluster bombs and thermobaric bombs. But it seems sometimes as if, other than some weasel words about Putin as an individual being evil, it seems OK to blame the amorphous "west", despite no country of the west having attacked Russia, and there is no acceptance that something may be wrong with the way Russia goes about its activities or that their political systems have failed.

Bear baiting was a popular spectator sport, apparently. I can understand the motivation for the proprietor's, the bear's, and even the spectators' actions. The dogs', which usually die? Not so much.

I am reasonably confident that, in principle, we can all agree the bears are victims, and the dogs too, despite their foolishness.

What is strange, therefore, is that currently there are many fools who think only the dogs are victims, apparently because the bear was neither cornered nor poked. I don't know how, but somehow they must all think they have better insight on the subject than:

George Kennan (father of US strategy for the cold war)
Henry Kissinger (Secretary of State and National Secretary Advisor under Nixon and Ford)
Jack Matlock (US ambassador to USSR under Reagan and Bush Snr)
William Perry (US Defence Secretary under Clinton)
Bob Gates (US Defence Secretary under Bush Jnr and Obama)
Bill Burns (current director of CIA)
Malcolm Fraser (former Australian PM)
Paul Keating (former Australian PM)
etc. etc.

Just to help the fools, it would appear the most quoted opposing thought leader, if one can all it that, is apparently this. Like most if not all "our" mass media, she attributes the war to Putin's (unsavoury) personal characteristics. Funny that, since none of those on the prior list had any idea which Russian leader was going to pull the trigger, they just knew one would...

Which reminds me, how fools are made in the Anglophone West:

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Personally I am not claiming the £350 for the tiny bit I have ended up doing to help the situation.

Well done on offering someone a home.

You may not want to take the £350 but couldn't you claim it and either give it to your refugee or donate it to, e.g., https://www.dec.org.uk/appeal/ukraine-humanitarian-appeal ?

 

[matticus]

Bear baiting was a popular spectator sport, apparently. I can understand the motivation for the proprietor's, the bear's, and even the spectators' actions. The dogs', which usually die? Not so much.

I am reasonably confident that, in principle, we can all agree the bears are victims, and the dogs too, despite their foolishness.

What is strange, therefore, is that currently there are many fools who think only the dogs are victims, apparently because the bear was neither cornered nor poked.

The bear in your picture seems both cornered (well ok - chained to a wall), and poked (well, a dog's jaws are attached to his throat). Most folks would say that Russia was being treated rather better than the bear in your picture. (are they still in Crimea? Who decided that was OK?)

 

[AndyRM]

Good idea. I assume you will be signing up for anyone at all to come and live in your house with only retrospective checks in place?

Actually, how many people apart from Paul and me are actually offering a room/house/caravan/holiday home to a Ukranian refugee?

Me.

 

[mjr]

(which you would no doubt moan about in 6 months when the NAO point out there is £100m lost to false claims?)

I have every confidence in the Johnson government: the amount defrauded from this scheme will exceed £100m but it'll take longer than 6 months to discover and report.