War with Russia

[Rusty Nails]

It’s you who doesn’t know any of the countries history. You don’t know about all the corruption and atrocities on both sides. The Ukraine has been destroyed by a small Russian force who have clearly had poor intel. They have been badly lead from the start. Putin is an alpha male who bring things up another level if he needs.
I spends hours watching documentaries & reading books about military matters and history. It’s people like you who go off the bbc & other main stream media outlets forgetting what they reported in 2014.
If you know things then you can change my mind with open dialogue without been bitchy. When people can admit they were wrong it’s a sign of intelligence. We already have around 17 million people who won’t admit Brexit was a poor choice.
Anyway nobody knows what will happen in the end, I’d like to know your opinion though?

A small Russian force?
Poor intel?

I don't know what will happen in the end but suspect there will be some ending that allows Putin to claim victory to his ill informed population, and gradually the west will forget and sanctions will drift off.

 

[Milzy]

A small Russian force?
Poor intel?

I don't know what will happen in the end but suspect there will be some ending that allows Putin to claim victory to his ill informed population, and gradually the west will forget and sanctions will drift off.

I’d agree with that, that’s pretty much the same as what was said on Russian today this morning. I know it was blocked but is now streaming again.

 

[Rusty Nails]

I’d agree with that, that’s pretty much the same as what was said on Russian today this morning. I know it was blocked but is now streaming again.

And you criticise me because you think I get my information from the BBC?

 

[Rusty Nails]

They have been badly lead from the start.

That's not what you were saying at the start. Sorry for the repetition, but the point is worth making when considering how to take your pronouncements, which seem to vary depending on which websites you have been trawling.

Putins commanders are amazing though which is why it’s so weird that not much is happening right now.

I know we don’t want to believe it’s true but Russian generals are very clever.

 

[mudsticks]

And you criticise me because you think I get my information from the BBC?

All information sources have a bit of bias , whether concious or unconcious .

But right now wrt RT vs BBC isn't too hard to work out which is the more trustworthy .

Meanwhile amongst all the dramatic 'fog of war' bombs and armaments, and generals clever or otherwise the already vulnerable are at further risk of being horribly exploited and harmed..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60891801

 

[Milzy]

And you criticise me because you think I get my information from the BBC?

RT are real. The BBC full of more false propaganda. The BBC like to cover up for child sex offenders.
I only check to compare like any historians would. You need as many sources as possible to put the right pieces together. You must understand that. I don’t know why you’ve got such a bee in your bonnet. I bet you supported the second gulf war with fake weapons of mass destruction, plus many other U.S U.K illegal wars.

 

[AndyRM]

Russia Today may be real, but has been widely discredited as a reliable source. It's a propaganda machine, nothing more.

For all the BBC is rightly criticised for, the two are night and day.

 

[Rusty Nails]

RT are real. The BBC full of more false propaganda. The BBC like to cover up for child sex offenders.
I only check to compare like any historians would. You need as many sources as possible to put the right pieces together. You must understand that. I don’t know why you’ve got such a bee in your bonnet. I bet you supported the second gulf war with fake weapons of mass destruction, plus many other U.S U.K illegal wars.

You have no idea of what I supported.

So you consider yourself a historian using as many resources as possible.

I remember your contributions to the Covid threads where you confidently quoted your reputable sources only for them to be shown up as known conspiracy theorists or crackpots, totally unqualified to make the pronouncements they did.

Proper research does not consist of trawling the internet looking for controversial sources that support your point of view and then quoting them as "actual facts".

I admit to having a bee in my bonnet about people who believe they are the only source of "actual facts".

 

[StuAff]

As someone with postgraduate level education in history, I can say with reasonable certainty that 'putting the right pieces together' is entirely the wrong idea. Deciding what you think and then ignoring evidence that doesn't suit that view isn't what any student of history should do. For example: the views of David Irving, versus the views of Alan Bullock, Hugh Trevor-Roper, Michael Burleigh, Hannah Arendt, Karl-Dietrich Bracher, Joachim Fest, John Toland, Ian Kershaw, Volker Ullrich…

 

[Milzy]

As someone with postgraduate level education in history, I can say with reasonable certainty that 'putting the right pieces together' is entirely the wrong idea. Deciding what you think and then ignoring evidence that doesn't suit that view isn't what any student of history should do. For example: the views of David Irving, versus the views of Alan Bullock, Hugh Trevor-Roper, Michael Burleigh, Hannah Arendt, Karl-Dietrich Bracher, Joachim Fest, John Toland, Ian Kershaw, Volker Ullrich…

Everyone has their own reality & choses to follow a narrative. We always want to believe that our side is right & the eastern side are the evil. Trouble is there’s corruption and wrong doing on both sides.
It’s good if people can sit around a table & talk though. There’s been times when a black man has spoken to a KKK member & showed him what he’s been doing is completely wrong & the KKK member has said sorry & thanks for helping then handed his cloak over to the black man.

 

[StuAff]

Everyone has their own reality & choses to follow a narrative. We always want to believe that our side is right & the eastern side are the evil. Trouble is there’s corruption and wrong doing on both sides.
It’s good if people can sit around a table & talk though. There’s been times when a black man has spoken to a KKK member & showed him what he’s been doing is completely wrong & the KKK member has said sorry & thanks for helping then handed his cloak over to the black man.

'Corruption and wrong doing on both sides' is a preposterous misinterpretation of this situation. Equating the flaws of Zelenskiy's government and previous Ukrainian adminstrations with those of Putin's isn't just ridiculous, it's obscene.

 

[AndyRM]

Daryl Davis? Not sure how he's relevant in this situation.

 

[mudsticks]

RT are real. The BBC full of more false propaganda. The BBC like to cover up for child sex offenders.
I only check to compare like any historians would. You need as many sources as possible to put the right pieces together. You must understand that. I don’t know why you’ve got such a bee in your bonnet. I bet you supported the second gulf war with fake weapons of mass destruction, plus many other U.S U.K illegal wars.

I know historians..

Professional ones.
Professors of it even.

They relentlessly fact check

They use accurate and reliable sources.

Yes they review and revise when new (reliable and verifiable ) information comes to light.

What they don't do is trawl the internet cherry picking bits of unverifiable journalism, that suits their agenda.

 

[StuAff]

I know historians..

Professional ones.
Professors of it even.

They relentlessly fact check

They use accurate and reliable sources.

Yes they review and revise when new (reliable and verifiable ) information comes to light.

What they don't do is trawl the internet cherry picking bits of unverifiable journalism, that suits their agenda.

The Professor who supervised my MA would very much agree with this. Suggesting RT, Sputnik, other Russian state media & fellow travellers are reliable sources might endanger his health.

 

[Rusty Nails]

'Corruption and wrong doing on both sides' is a preposterous misinterpretation of this situation. Equating the flaws of Zelenskiy's government and previous Ukrainian adminstrations with those of Putin's isn't just ridiculous, it's obscene.

Exactly. The road to democracy has not been straightforward for the countries freed from the methods of government under the USSR and some have made more progress than others, but there is no equivalence at all between the problems Ukraine has had to get to this point in just 30 years and the tyrranical role that Russia still thinks is its right.