What % will keep driving cars instead of feed their families?

[Deleted member 28]

You want to ride your motorcycle. They want to do those sports. Why shouldn't they? Has allowing others to have whatever they want in life ever crossed your mind?

I'm not protesting about them though am I, you are protesting against what I do.

Talk about whataboutery!

Desperate or what?

 

[mjr]

She took a journey that had 3 changes that's all I know and she said it took 11 hours.

And I can't think of any reason why she might think it a good idea to exaggerate the awfulness of a train journey to a petrolhead(!)

I've just checked the train times and there are indeed 5h 40 minute ones but there are plenty of 10 -12 hrs ones too which wouldn't suit you to reveal would it?

The only 10-12 hour ones are where you either have an overnight break or go to Paddington to catch the "Night Riviera" sleeper train, but it wouldn't suit you to reveal that, would it?

You might even like the sleeper, @shep. It has a bar on it and everything (assuming that can be staffed safely again now), but it does serve better beer than the dross in your profile pic, so maybe you wouldn't cope.

She came down mid holiday at short notice and sorted the ticket out herself so probably did go for a cheaper fare but don't try and make me out to be a liar.

Oh I'm not. I was making you out as misinformed and spreading that misinformation because you rarely seem to check what you're told before repeating it, if it fits your views. It would have be some bizarre bargain basement convoluted route fare to take 11 hours, but maybe it was possible when there were cheap tickets on the slow Exeter-London train pre-covid.

Another possibility is that the journey went wrong, but I expect she would have told you that because it would fit your anti-train view, and if it delayed her more than 1h, the journey would be free... unlike when a car breaks down and you normally have to pay extra to get it towed and fixed! (either by subscription or as more expensive one-offs). It really is strange that car sellers still get away with that opposite of a "delay repay" guarantee as much as they do... but that's another discussion.

It's immaterial though isn't it because no one is ever going to piss about catching buses, trains, taxis and spend 2 weeks carless to please a bloke bleating about having asthma!

That's not why they should do it. The top reason to do it is that the holiday starts as soon as you get going, if you do it right. No trying to figure out maps, just walk from vehicle to vehicle. Read books, watch films, listen to the test match, chat with your travelling companions, whatever. Have a drink if you want. Plan in time for a restaurant trip or sightseeing on the way if you want. Eat on board if you want. Not contributing to death and destruction while you're having fun is just a bonus.

It's the idea of spending 2 weeks carless that bothers you, isn't it? Have the motor industry taken over your life to the point you cannot function without them even for a short break?

 

[Rusty Nails]

Again, I ride and drive my vehicles purely for leisure (unless I've completely got the meaning of leisure wrong) so isn't this the type of journeys our friend wants to stop, I'm sure he's big enough to answer for himself?

I am sure if you are specific over the type of journey, distance, whether it is the ride or the destination that is the purpose then he could answer, if he wanted to waste another five minutes of his life.

E.g. going by car to take the family for a holiday or trip to the seaside is one leisure purpose, but is different just going for a ride in the country where the ride itself not the destination is the purpose. Taking the car to go to a bike race/sports event/theatre is a different type of leisure purpose again. Taking the car 2 miles (for most a feasible walking/cycling distance) to see a show is a different leisure situation to taking it to see a show 40 miles away.

 

[mjr]

I'm not protesting about them though am I, you are protesting against what I do.

Of course you're not protesting about them: their activities are already illegal. Would you protest if there was any realistic prospect of relegalisation?

Of course I'm protesting against what you do: you are hurting people just to get your jollies.

Talk about whataboutery!

Desperate or what?

One of us has actually posted a "what about" in this discussion and it wasn't me. Physician, heal thyself!

 

[mjr]

I noticed while searching for shep's "what about" that he has edited an earlier post after I read it, to add questions directed at me, which make it look like I'm ignoring questions. I have not reread all posts to see if the same stunt has been used before or since.

I ride my motorcycle for leisure I assume?

I don't use it for work or to go shopping so therefore it's for my enjoyment I guess

That's your definition or opinion. You've not given enough information for me to form an opinion on it.

and this appears to be what you are against because you're unfortunate to have asthma.

That's not why I'm against pointless leisure motoring. Others have far worse asthma and it seems completely unnecessary to harm them so much now that there are so many alternatives, but I'm not entirely surprised that you don't expect people to be motivated by concern for others or for future generations.

 

[mudsticks]

And I can't think of any reason why she might think it a good idea to exaggerate the awfulness of a train journey to a petrolhead(!)


The only 10-12 hour ones are where you either have an overnight break or go to Paddington to catch the "Night Riviera" sleeper train, but it wouldn't suit you to reveal that, would it?

You might even like the sleeper, @shep. It has a bar on it and everything (assuming that can be staffed safely again now), but it does serve better beer than the dross in your profile pic, so maybe you wouldn't cope.


Oh I'm not. I was making you out as misinformed and spreading that misinformation because you rarely seem to check what you're told before repeating it, if it fits your views. It would have be some bizarre bargain basement convoluted route fare to take 11 hours, but maybe it was possible when there were cheap tickets on the slow Exeter-London train pre-covid.

Another possibility is that the journey went wrong, but I expect she would have told you that because it would fit your anti-train view, and if it delayed her more than 1h, the journey would be free... unlike when a car breaks down and you normally have to pay extra to get it towed and fixed! (either by subscription or as more expensive one-offs). It really is strange that car sellers still get away with that opposite of a "delay repay" guarantee as much as they do... but that's another discussion.


That's not why they should do it. The top reason to do it is that the holiday starts as soon as you get going, if you do it right. No trying to figure out maps, just walk from vehicle to vehicle. Read books, watch films, listen to the test match, chat with your travelling companions, whatever. Have a drink if you want. Plan in time for a restaurant trip or sightseeing on the way if you want. Eat on board if you want. Not contributing to death and destruction while you're having fun is just a bonus.

It's the idea of spending 2 weeks carless that bothers you, isn't it? Have the motor industry taken over your life to the point you cannot function without them even for a short break?

I absolutely adore my car free holidays..

Trains, buses, hitch hiking, hiking, cycling..


Camping most nights, stay in a cheapish hotel now and then.

Or with freinds as on this Cornish trip just gone..

I really resent it if for some reason I'm forced to drive..

Motorways Urg..

Three hours from Exeter to Penzance by train.
Idyllic scenery.

Three hours from Exeter to Birmingham..
To change for onwards most usually.

Done both many a time..

Most years we take a reasonably in priced and reliable train to the South of France (another scenic day on the train)
and then another smaller train and or buses to get into the high mountains for days on end of blissful beauty .

I mean.. Why would you not want to camp here ??

Of course I understand with children in tow the costs of public transport mounts up

But that's because the costs are skewed in favour of private cars..

So we need to fix that, not make out it's impossible to change habits.

People always used to manage to go on holiday, without cars or aeroplanes .

Some of us do now, it's not that impossible.

But it could be made into the cheaper and easier option with a bit of good policy put in place..

It may just be that fuel costs, and a renewed impetus towards renewables for security, and climate change reasons push things that way too..
Here's hoping

 

[icowden]

Again, I ride and drive my vehicles purely for leisure (unless I've completely got the meaning of leisure wrong) so isn't this the type of journeys our friend wants to stop, I'm sure he's big enough to answer for himself?

If you read the opening post @mjr says nothing about wanting to stop them. What he asks is at what point people will stop bothering them, instead preferring to buy food.

As you have pointed out, you are fortunate to have an LPG camper which you can drive 500 miles for a relatively reasonable cost. If it were a petrol or diesel based Camper you would be looking at about 115 litres of petrol. Which at today's prices would be about £184. This doesn't include any driving whilst in Cornwall of course.

There will be a point in the future when that £184 becomes £368 and then £736 etc. Of course in many ways a train is less convenience, as is camping, but if the cost of getting your mobile house somewhere becomes prohibitive - or it may be that LPG gets phased out so your camper no longer goes anywhere. So then what's the alternative.

Equally, many people are already looking for alternatives.

 

[mjr]

Of course I understand with children in tow the costs of public transport mounts up

But that's because the costs are skewed in favour of private cars..

So we need to fix that, not make out it's impossible to change habits.

Yes, we do need to fix it, but it's also worth a quick note that the costs of scheduled transport do not add up as quickly as occasional users often believe. Group discounts are still widespread, starting from 2 people, so you rarely just double or treble the individual fare, and then there are discount cards which are often worthwhile even for one longer journey, plus discounts on discount cards if you buy through some loyalty or perks schemes.

Of course, private operators have conflicting interests for and against publicising those discounts, and there are some gaps, such as no GroupSave on Crosscountry in the southwest (but it is available on all SWR and all but four GWR). I hope that those will be solved by Great British Rail and the Bus Service Improvement Plans as part of fixing it.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I'm not sure it's using your car to go on holiday for one week during the summer that's the issue. It's the day to day use of your car for convenience, where other forms of transport could possibly be used. This kind of use could be addressed if there was the money and willingness to do so. If you make motoring increasingly unaffordable, the well off will still run cars. They might buy a small electric car or a Yaris instead of a diesel Range Rover, but they will still drive. The less well off will be forced off the roads altogether, whether they need a car or not.

If public transport was subsidised, more widely available, and safer, and if it was far, far cheaper and easier to hop on a bus than take your car, people would cut down on driving or get rid of their cars altogether.

 

[Deleted member 49]

I drive most days...more at work than social.Public transport going to work is a no,too many changes and I'd have to be up far too early for the 9 mile ish trip.Cycled today as the weather was tolerable,but doing a physical job I'm knackered on the ride home.Did a 12 mile post round then cycled home down the seafront into a headwind....just what I felt like after work.
Plus I usually pick one of my kids up from work but today didn't need to so bike it was.
If I could afford to buy/drive electric I would.But there's no way I'm getting rid of a 15 year old diesel car to put myself in debt.I don't believe electrification is the holy grail anyway.I bet Zoom has done more to reduce emissions than electric vehicles ! How about a four day week instead ? I haven't noticed any change in traffic levels here on my commute so I'm not sure the price increases will put many off,just hurt them more financially.There a fecking joke anyway,same as the energy bills there fleecing us with ! Like they have to pass it on to us with the profits there making 🙄

 

[Fab Foodie]

20mpg?, you must have lead boots.

At 70mph on cruise control and driving like Miss Daisy from Deal to Devon we have been getting 32mpg from our fully laden Ducato LWB campervan.
This weekend I have stripped every non-essential item from the van and my next run to Oxfordshire will have 60mph on the cruise control for motorway use. Reckon 35mpg might be feasible.

Even Sweeney-footed Wimpers is now delicately getting 60mpg from her diesel Duster.

Every MPG counts in large amounts....

 

[newfhouse]

Where do you suggest we sleep once we've got off the train?

Boarding kennels?

 

[Deleted member 28]

Boarding kennels?

Knob.

 

[Deleted member 28]

At 70mph on cruise control and driving like Miss Daisy from Deal to Devon we have been getting 32mpg from our fully laden Ducato LWB campervan.
This weekend I have stripped every non-essential item from the van and my next run to Oxfordshire will have 60mph on the cruise control for motorway use. Reckon 35mpg might be feasible.

Even Sweeney-footed Wimpers is getting 60mpg from her diesel Duster.

Every MPG counts...

Welcome to the debate, be interesting to hear what people's opinions are of limpnoodles motorhome activity?

Is it 'driving for leisure ' or simply doing what he wants?

 

[BoldonLad]

At 70mph on cruise control and driving like Miss Daisy from Deal to Devon we have been getting 32mpg from our fully laden Ducato LWB campervan.
This weekend I have stripped every non-essential item from the van and my next run to Oxfordshire will have 60mph on the cruise control for motorway use. Reckon 35mpg might be feasible.

Even Sweeney-footed Wimpers is getting 60mpg from her diesel Duster.

Every MPG counts...

Matches my experience. Typically, 48-50mpg from my Euro6 diesel Renault Capture (not driven very much, it has only done 13,000 miles in 6 years), 30mpg from our Euro6 diesel Ducato low profile Motorhome. The Motorhome is very sensitive to speed, rather than weight, I find (this is hardly a surprise. since it has the aerodynamics of a brick). Even towing our motor scooter (Yamaho xMax 250) on a trailer reduces mpg only very slightly, but, 5mph on the cruise control (above 55mph) drops mpg much more. Our 2 litre BMW diesel was equally frugal, we could go from Newcastle-upon-Tyne, via Dover/Calais to Rouen on one tank full. BMW is now long gone, it was my second from least favourite car of those I have owned.

We are (well) retired, so, I suppose every journey is for Leisure purposes.