Yet more Tory sleaze….

[mudsticks]

Absolutely. Conservatism always has been about self interest, but it used to preserve a public face of caring about other people, of trying to create a decent society for all, etc. Wasn't it essentially Maggie who ripped off that facemask and just promoted the idea of selfishness and self advancement as not just a supposed virtue but as pretty much the only virtue?

Yes she did .

It was being heavily promoted as 'the way forward' when I was an impressionable late teenager

But I was more impressed by the counter argument that it's no way to run a decent sustainable society, in the long term..

As I remember it, Thatcher promoted the idea that people should attempt to solve their own problems and/or help/support their friends/relations, before holding out their hand for Government assistance.

Doesn't seem like a bad philosophy to me.

I didn't vote for her by the way (although, I was old enough).

But so much of that supposed 'self reliance, 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' stuff.

Neglected to acknowledge or address the baked in systemic inequality that was prevelent then, and has got worse since.


Ideas such as just let the rich get richer at any cost, and 'the poor' will somehow benefit from the crumbs falling from the table, are not only morally repugnant, they are also ineffective.
The very rich get and stay rich, and consolidate their power because that's their main objective.

And then privatising and selling off of shared assets and commons such as social housing made everything worse again.

I come from a relatively priveleged background ( not money so much , but decent state education, and parents who encouraged me) and i have worked very hard to get where I am.

But I can still see the systemic advantages (and luck) that have also helped along the way.

 

[BoldonLad]

Yes she did .

It was being heavily promoted as 'the way forward' when I was an impressionable late teenager

But I was more impressed by the counter argument that it's no way to run a decent sustainable society, in the long term..


But so much of that supposed 'self reliance, 'pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' stuff.

Neglected to acknowledge or address the baked in systemic inequality that was prevelent then, and has got worse since.


Ideas such as just let the rich get richer at any cost, and 'the poor' will somehow benefit from the crumbs falling from the table, are not only morally repugnant, they are also ineffective.
The very rich get and stay rich, and consolidate their power because that's their main objective.

And then privatising and selling off of shared assets and commons such as social housing made everything worse again.

I come from a relatively priveleged background ( not money so much , but decent state education, and parents who encouraged me) and i have worked very hard to get where I am.

But I can still see the systemic advantages (and luck) that have also helped along the way.

I didn't say anything about crumbs from tables, please don't pretend I did.

Selling off Social Housing was, potentially, a mechanism to "distribute wealth", I would agree, the policy was a poorly executed, the income from the sales should have been used to provide new (thermally efficient) Social Housing (IMHO).

 

[mudsticks]

I didn't say anything about crumbs from tables, please don't pretend I did.

Selling off Social Housing was, potentially, a mechanism to "distribute wealth", I would agree, the policy was a poorly executed, the income from the sales should have been used to provide new (thermally efficient) Social Housing (IMHO).

I didn't say you personally said that.

(You'll be reminding us that you didn't vote brexit next )

Those were the ideas that were promoted at the time such as 'trickle down' Reaganomics, which held Thatcher in such thrall.

That went alongside the idea that everyone had an equal chance to be 'self reliant'

I agree the social housing sell off was a terrible idea, poorly executed.

 

[newfhouse]

As I remember it, Thatcher promoted the idea that people should attempt to solve their own problems and/or help/support their friends/relations, before holding out their hand for Government assistance.

That was the glossy spin but never the reality. The lie that people were or are holding out their hands makes me sick. All they (we) want is a decent society that gives a fair chance that doesn’t deliberately maintain them as an underclass.

If giving away social housing to mostly banks and landlords had actually worked as a means to make most ordinary people wealthier, why is there still so much poverty? Why do ordinary young people struggle so much in the housing market? Why are so many ex council houses rented back to local authorities?

The whole thing was a con. A few tenants did well at the time but now their kids are suffering the consequences. It stinks, and it always did.

 

[The Crofted Crest]

The sole purpose of the conservative party, and it's been building up so much momentum in recent years that the members can't keep up with it, is to make society safe for capitalism.

 

[mudsticks]

The sole purpose of the conservative party, and it's been building up so much momentum in recent years that the members can't keep up with it, is to make society safe for capitalism.

And a safe society isn't good for capitalism.

Capitalism ( the sort that prioritises wealth over all else) doesn't make society safe

Voting for more of the same, even if I'm doing alright, doesn't strike me as 'self interest' as living in a society where large numbers of people are having a miserable time, one way or another, makes life more miserable for all of us .

 

[BoldonLad]

That was the glossy spin but never the reality. The lie that people were or are holding out their hands makes me sick. All they (we) want is a decent society that gives a fair chance that doesn’t deliberately maintain them as an underclass.

If giving away social housing to mostly banks and landlords had actually worked as a means to make most ordinary people wealthier, why is there still so much poverty? Why do ordinary young people struggle so much in the housing market? Why are so many ex council houses rented back to local authorities?

The whole thing was a con. A few tenants did well at the time but now their kids are suffering the consequences. It stinks, and it always did.

You are clearly acquainted with a different cross section of the population than I am.

I did say it (sale of Social Housing to sitting tenants) was a good idea, poorly executed.

What, suffering the consequences of inheriting a house?

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

GLP's email:

Good Law Project has seen documents showing the Government misled Parliament, the National Audit Office and the High Court about the size of the illegal VIP lane it adopted, which advantaged associates of Government Ministers.

In October 2020, Good Law Project revealed the existence of the VIP lane. In November 2020, the Government informed the National Audit Office that there were 47 VIPs. In November 2021, after losing an FOI battle with Good Law Project, it published a list of 50 VIPs. However, internal Government documents leaked to Good Law Project now reveal that the true number of companies fast-tracked down the ‘VIP’ lane was far higher.

We can reveal that at least 18 other companies, who between them were directly awarded a further £984 million in PPE contracts, were also given the ‘VIP’ treatment.

The full list of additional names can be found here. These 68 VIPs were awarded a total of £4.9 billion in PPE contracts - all without competition.

The new VIPs include:

• Hong Kong based oil and gas firm Jason Offshore Equipment was handed a £25 million contract in June 2020. 18 months later, the DHSC still hasn’t published the contract, directly contradicting Boris Johnson’s claims in Parliament that all PPE contracts were now “on the record”.
• PPE contracts worth £173 million were awarded to China Meheco Co. Ltd and Winner Medical, both of whom have been linked to Uighur human rights abuses in Xinjiang. Government has previously misled the public about other aspects of the deal.
• A £96 million contract awarded to Beijing Union Glory Investment Co. Ltd - a firm that operated out of a hotel room in Beijing.
• State controlled China National Instruments Import & Export Group landed three contracts worth £130,000,000.

The Department of Health’s Annual Report revealed that of every £13 we spent on PPE, £10 was wasted. How long must hard-working taxpayers carry the heavy burden of this Government’s waste and sleaze?

As a supporter on Good Law Project's mailing list, you are hearing about this extraordinary story first. Will you share this with your friends and family and invite them to sign up to our mailing list:

 

[newfhouse]

GLP's email:

Good Law Project has seen documents showing the Government misled Parliament, the National Audit Office and the High Court about the size of the illegal VIP lane it adopted, which advantaged associates of Government Ministers.

In October 2020, Good Law Project revealed the existence of the VIP lane. In November 2020, the Government informed the National Audit Office that there were 47 VIPs. In November 2021, after losing an FOI battle with Good Law Project, it published a list of 50 VIPs. However, internal Government documents leaked to Good Law Project now reveal that the true number of companies fast-tracked down the ‘VIP’ lane was far higher.

We can reveal that at least 18 other companies, who between them were directly awarded a further £984 million in PPE contracts, were also given the ‘VIP’ treatment.

The full list of additional names can be found here. These 68 VIPs were awarded a total of £4.9 billion in PPE contracts - all without competition.

The new VIPs include:

• Hong Kong based oil and gas firm Jason Offshore Equipment was handed a £25 million contract in June 2020. 18 months later, the DHSC still hasn’t published the contract, directly contradicting Boris Johnson’s claims in Parliament that all PPE contracts were now “on the record”.
• PPE contracts worth £173 million were awarded to China Meheco Co. Ltd and Winner Medical, both of whom have been linked to Uighur human rights abuses in Xinjiang. Government has previously misled the public about other aspects of the deal.
• A £96 million contract awarded to Beijing Union Glory Investment Co. Ltd - a firm that operated out of a hotel room in Beijing.
• State controlled China National Instruments Import & Export Group landed three contracts worth £130,000,000.

The Department of Health’s Annual Report revealed that of every £13 we spent on PPE, £10 was wasted. How long must hard-working taxpayers carry the heavy burden of this Government’s waste and sleaze?

As a supporter on Good Law Project's mailing list, you are hearing about this extraordinary story first. Will you share this with your friends and family and invite them to sign up to our mailing list:

Jolyon will find himself hanging from a tree in the woods at this rate.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Jolyon will find himself hanging from a tree in the woods at this rate.

The dirty tricks campaign is under way.

 

[Mugshot]

There was an urgent question on Afghanistan straight after PMQs today.
Andrew Mitchell highlighted the terrible plight the people of the country are facing. His point was soured somewhat for me by his keenness to point out that if something wasn't done about the situation, then those displaced, in part by the actions and inactions of the UK, would head here.

 

[FishFright]

Milkfloat’s post comes well after the persistent derailment of the thread and it wasn’t the first request in the thread to be ignored. The Starmer/Corbyn chat is a worthy topic but this isn’t the appropriate thread. There’s an entire forum open to you to continue the relevant discussion.

Outside forums this is how discussions actually work out so it always amusing when people on spend more time moaning about things being off topic than the ones accused spent being off topic.

I wonder if this a hangover from the mainland where it was used to annoy mods in to shutting down discussion.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Outside forums this is how discussions actually work out so it always amusing when people on spend more time moaning about things being off topic than the ones accused spent being off topic.

I wonder if this a hangover from the mainland where it was used to annoy mods in to shutting down discussion.

Detours are part of the enjoyment of discussing things whether that takes place in the pub or on a forum, otherwise they become like a turgid debating society.
If the main topic is interesting enough they will usually only be short detours....a bit like going touring on a bike.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Detours are part of the enjoyment of discussing things whether that takes place in the pub or on a forum, otherwise they become like a turgid debating society.
If the main topic is interesting enough they will usually only be short detours....a bit like going touring on a bike.

Go on Rusty start me off again....

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Outside forums this is how discussions actually work out

We’re inside a forum.

so it always amusing when people on spend more time moaning about things being off topic than the ones accused spent being off topic.

In this thread, count the number of off-topic posts and the number of those objecting to them. Let me know if your observation holds. (It doesn’t.)