Can the (Met) police ever change?

[mudsticks]

I think the vetting fails because it's possible to keep racist and misogynistic tendencies under wrap at school or work. You only show it amongst people you trust. Once you feel in a safe position, either socially or at work, and it becomes clear your views aren't unacceptable, then you can let fly. Hence the WhatsApp groups saying stuff they probably wouldn't articulate aloud.

Instead of police vetting just asking 'Was he/she trustworthy?' they might be better also asking 'What were his/her attitudes to women like? What language did he use?'. With all the Andrew Tate and incel stuff grooming kids online we are probably going to see more young men coming through with unacceptable attitudes. Some of these will inevitably end up in the police.

I just re read the original twitter thread on the OP it's utterly repulsive

But these men walk (and work) among us, they and their misogynistic attitudes, are really not that rare, in or out of the police.

Much more needs to be done to call it out both online and in the real world, wherever it's found.
It's not excusable anywhere..

Sadly there's still a normalising, or excusing of this kind of thing, as if it's 'inevitable' behaviour from some quarters.
It doesn't get challenged nearly enough by those people who might* just possibly get listened to.

I'm fed up to the back teeth with this sort of stuff being dismissed as 'just bants' 'locker room talk' 'having a laugh' or 'just letting off steam'.

*That's mainly other men of course, knuckle draggers definitely don't listen to 'wimmin' like me.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The other thing of course is that it's really quite hard to sack police officers. I think a couple of Chief Constables have expressed frustration at being unable to do much other than move them to desk jobs. Perhaps the government need to look again at what constitutes a sackable offence, and forces need to ensure that if it is a sackable then the officer goes. And no more 'naughty step' type admonishments for stuff that would be a written warning in most big companies.

"A Metropolitan Police officer who sent a racist WhatsApp message, a Cleveland Police officer who demanded “nude pics” from a female probationer and a Durham Constabulary officer who sent sexual videos to colleagues are all among those given “reflective practice”.

https://archive.md/jpPID

 

[mudsticks]

The other thing of course is that it's really quite hard to sack police officers. I think a couple of Chief Constables have expressed frustration at being unable to do much other than move them to desk jobs. Perhaps the government need to look again at what constitutes a sackable offence, and forces need to ensure that if it is a sackable then the officer goes. And no more 'naughty step' type admonishments for stuff that would be a written warning in most big companies.

"A Metropolitan Police officer who sent a racist WhatsApp message, a Cleveland Police officer who demanded “nude pics” from a female probationer and a Durham Constabulary officer who sent sexual videos to colleagues are all among those given “reflective practice”.

https://archive.md/jpPID

Definitely that's something that needs to change - the ability to get rid.



But even if they can be fired, they'll be got rid of, back out into 'society'

To become what?

Misogynistic, racist 'security guards' ??

The underlying issue is still there, and I still don't see it being tackled, with anything like the amount of energy necessary, by those most able to ie, other 'decent' people.
The response is just "I'm not like that, my mates aren't like that"

As if that's enough, by itself.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Looks like the government is having a review of police dismissal procedures. I agree with the right of an officer to appeal the decision of a chief constable to sack him/her, but it seems crazy that a panel could reinstate someone who had committed a criminal act.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ic-staff-450-sex-claims-against-officers.html

 

[Bazzer]

Resources?

Or perhaps the Met has previously chosen to go after what appeared to be the easier wins?

I wonder also if there is an element of trying to satisfy statistics? I would guess the conviction of 12 serial sex offenders would appear as 12 convictions, rather than addressing the number of victims.

Crimes not 'significant' enough.??

Quite possibly. Or have the powers that be not wanted to confront some of the rotten wood in society? Religious orders for example have proved themselves to be a dab hands at covering the rot rather than cutting it out.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Teaching too. Staff were often just allowed to resign rather than reported to police or sacked. The equivalent of being moved to another parish.

I genuinely think the police have made steps to take sexual offences more seriously but the low conviction rate is enough to deter many people from reporting assaults or abuse, especially historical abuse. Until that changes it's hard to have confidence in the system.

Stuff like the Andrew Tate UK allegations - Herts police supposedly taking years to pass a case to prosecutors - massively undermines confidence.

 

[Ian H]

Looks like the government is having a review of police dismissal procedures. I agree with the right of an officer to appeal the decision of a chief constable to sack him/her, but it seems crazy that a panel could reinstate someone who had committed a criminal act.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ic-staff-450-sex-claims-against-officers.html

This reminds me that the police in the past have used disciplinary procedures to hound ethnic minority, female, and otherwise 'troublesome' cops out of the force. I'd want to know that any new powers wouldn't simply be used to sack the whistle-blowers.

 

[mudsticks]

This reminds me that the police in the past have used disciplinary procedures to hound ethnic minority, female, and otherwise 'troublesome' cops out of the force. I'd want to know that any new powers wouldn't simply be used to sack the whistle-blowers.

Creating an organisation that is supportive of its people working in difficult circumstances, whilst also having full transparency, accountability and preventing 'closing of ranks' is no mean feat.

But if they can't create that culture of trust, within, and without then there's not much hope of seeing the change that's needed.

Having read some of the accounts of poor treatment female and ethnic minority police force, it seems like there's a long way to go yet.

 

[multitool]

I wouldn't want to be in the Police force. They are caught right in the middle between politics and the public. They spend their day dealing with peanuts and a lot of the time the victims are peanuts too. They have to mop up the failings of other arms of the state. They have to be a gang, but not a gang. They are constantly under scrutiny, and their 'clients' mostly hate them. Even their social lives are constrained by their job.

How do you attract decent people into that environment? I can count a number of police as friends, and not one of them is a beat officer. They've all specialised, and they all say if they had to go back to beat policing they'd leave. Of those that have commented on the Met, none have a good word to say. And the one ex-cop who left the Met told me that he left because of his colleagues.

 

[Bromptonaut]

This too:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ficer-david-carrick-revealed-as-serial-rapist

To be sentenced next month, hopefully the Judge's remarks will be broadcast and published.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

This too:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ficer-david-carrick-revealed-as-serial-rapist

To be sentenced next month, hopefully the Judge's remarks will be broadcast and published.

I was just about to post the same story, having read it on the BBC.

This is a horrific failure of the police.

”A Metropolitan Police officer has admitted multiple rapes and sexual assaults against 12 women over an 18-year period.
David Carrick, 48, pleaded guilty to 49 offences, including 24 counts of rape.

He was suspended from duty as an armed officer when he was arrested in October 2021.
The Met has apologised after it emerged he had come to the attention of police over nine incidents, including rape allegations, between 2000 and 2021.
Assistant Commissioner Barbara Gray, the Met's lead for professionalism, said Carrick's offending was "unprecedented in policing".

"We should have spotted his pattern of abusive behaviour and because we didn't, we missed opportunities to remove him from the organisation," she said.
"We are truly sorry that being able to continue to use his role as a police officer may have prolonged the suffering of his victims."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64289461

 

[Ian H]

...Assistant Commissioner Barbara Gray, the Met's lead for professionalism, said Carrick's offending was "unprecedented in policing"...

How do they know?

 

[Deleted member 49]

David Carrick, a Metropolitan police officer has admitted at least 80 sex attacks, including 47 rapes, against a dozen women. It means that one of the country's worst sex offenders has been working at the force for 20 years.
How the feck did that go on for so long ? Was that the same unit as Couzens ?

 

[BoldonLad]

I was just about to post the same story, having read it on the BBC.

This is a horrific failure of the police.

”A Metropolitan Police officer has admitted multiple rapes and sexual assaults against 12 women over an 18-year period.
David Carrick, 48, pleaded guilty to 49 offences, including 24 counts of rape.

He was suspended from duty as an armed officer when he was arrested in October 2021.
The Met has apologised after it emerged he had come to the attention of police over nine incidents, including rape allegations, between 2000 and 2021.
Assistant Commissioner Barbara Gray, the Met's lead for professionalism, said Carrick's offending was "unprecedented in policing".

"We should have spotted his pattern of abusive behaviour and because we didn't, we missed opportunities to remove him from the organisation," she said.
"We are truly sorry that being able to continue to use his role as a police officer may have prolonged the suffering of his victims."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-64289461

I wonder if any other officers (like, for example) the “Head of Professionalism”, will suffer any fallout from this disgraceful state of affairs?

 

[Bromptonaut]

I wonder if any other officers (like, for example) the “Head of Professionalism”, will suffer any fallout from this disgraceful state of affairs?

I don't think the current postholder is in the frame as she's only recently appointed.