Can the (Met) police ever change?

[Deleted member 49]

You might have read it in the link provided in post #445

Duh....sorry !

 

[Deleted member 49]

Met Police chief inspector found dead before he was due to be charged over child abuse images 'hidden behind trap door'
The body of Richard Watkinson, 49, was discovered by colleagues concerned about his welfare.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'm not so sure it matters...there's rot everywhere by the sound of it.Sure i read 800 officers under enquiry for 1000 offences ?

Yes, I agree, there is rot everywhere, and, the Police are a sub-set of society, so, not unreasonable to find rot there too.

I didn’t mean that the fire-arm thing explained the whole problem, just that it was, perhaps, an indicator of a certain mentality.

In addition to the two terrible examples, it was part based on personal experience:

1: a friend, a retired police officer, who’s take on armed offices is that those who volunteer for that role, should, almost always, be barred from it.

2. A neighbour, now moved on, who joined police force. He became a fire-arms officer. A very odd chap. He and his family “disappeared” one night , moving out of their house during the night, no sign of them next morning.

Just my uneducated view of course

 

[Bazzer]

I'm not so sure it matters...there's rot everywhere by the sound of it.Sure i read 800 officers under enquiry for 1000 offences ?

You might have read it in the link provided in post #445

This was IIRC also the figure mentioned last night on the BBC TV news; at least the 6 o-clock version. However, the online Daily Express puts the figures much higher, at 1600 cases of alleged sexual offences or domestic violence involving 1071 staff. Presumably the term "staff" is intended to cover both officers and civilians working for the police.

 

[BoldonLad]

This was IIRC also the figure mentioned last night on the BBC TV news; at least the 6 o-clock version. However, the online Daily Express puts the figures much higher, at 1600 cases of alleged sexual offences or domestic violence involving 1071 staff. Presumably the term "staff" is intended to cover both officers and civilians working for the police.

While in no way condoning such behaviour, it would be interesting to know the statistical correlation for those figures between the Police force and Society in total.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Yes, I agree, there is rot everywhere, and, the Police are a sub-set of society, so, not unreasonable to find rot there too.

I didn’t mean that the fire-arm thing explained the whole problem, just that it was, perhaps, an indicator of a certain mentality.

In addition to the two terrible examples, it was part based on personal experience:

1: a friend, a retired police officer, who’s take on armed offices is that those who volunteer for that role, should, almost always, be barred from it.

2. A neighbour, now moved on, who joined police force. He became a fire-arms officer. A very odd chap. He and his family “disappeared” one night , moving out of their house during the night, no sign of them next morning.

Just my uneducated view of course

There is certainly something in it. A friend spent a short time in the Flying Squad and quickly deduced that most of the other armed officers were more dangerous than the criminals, and soon transferred elsewhere with a less 'macho' culture....

 

[C R]

The amount of wrong in this case is just jaw dropping, you could have believed this had happened in East Germany

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ers-convictions-quashed-london-after-51-years

 

[mudsticks]

And the ACAB attitude arises because people believe, rightly or wrongly, that even if individual pols aren't directly being barstewards they're certainly aware of and complicit in some of the barstewarding going on within their work environment because they are turning a blind eye - because that's how it goes in the 'culture' of the organisation.

If the system and culture itself doesn't change, then you'll only ever get people who broadly agree and go along with the system making their way to the top - they have to comply with the 'culture' however awful in order to rise*, same in any organisation, and they're unlikely to change things that much once they've risen so far in a system that has enabled them to get where they are - otherwise they risk being seen as disloyal to 'their own people'

It doesn't matter how many women or ethnic minorities or whoever are in the 'top jobs'.
If they got there by having to go along with or at least by largely ignoring the misogynistic racist systems in place, then nothing about the underlying culture changes.

*See our present home secretary for further details .

The amount of wrong in this case is just jaw dropping, you could have believed this had happened in East Germany

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...ers-convictions-quashed-london-after-51-years

“The police, and in particular undercover police, were used then in an attempt to undermine civil society opposition to reactionary government policies.”

Sounds familiar.. 🙄

 

[C R]

“The police, and in particular undercover police, were used then in an attempt to undermine civil society opposition to reactionary government policies.”

Sounds familiar.. 🙄

It is reminiscent of what happened to a friend of mine in high school. He was quite active in politics, and one day out of the blue a Guardia Civil couple* turned up at the family farm to have a chat with my friend's dad. The gist of the chat was did he know what his son was involved in. The father did know, was supportive and gave the guards very short shrift. This was a good 15 years after Franco's death, and to us made it clear that Spain was a long way from being a proper democracy with respect for the rule of law like the UK or France. How wrong we were .

*The Guardia Civil pairs are commonly referred to as "parejas" (couples) in Spanish. The double entendre is heavily used when referring to them. BTW, yes, it is homphobic, but so has the institution been historically, so getting back at them like that seemed fair at the time.

 

[multitool]

You get problematic situations in all walks of life. You get doctors and nurses who murder patients. You get teachers who are nonces, whether in their schools or outside, you get accountants and solicitors who embezzle their clients' money, and so on.

We don't tend to label all the members of these professions on the basis of the behaviour of a minority of their colleagues. But then most of our contact with these professions is not when we are being held to account for a legal transgression nor as a victim where we cannot but help be disappointed with the outcomes for the perpetrator.

The police are an easy target. They do a very difficult job in situations that most of us reject, which is why the police struggle to recruit. People are always just waiting for the police to put a foot wrong and in some respects we get the police we deserve.

That isn't to deny structural problems within the police. It's just to point out that ACArentB, and the attitude that they are is not only born of ignorance but makes it all the more likely that the police distance themselves further from communities.

 

[presta]

it would be interesting to know the statistical correlation for those figures between the Police force and Society in total

According to Rape Crisis, there are 618,000 reports of rape a year, so that's one per 108 head of population. There are 32,000 in the Met Police, but I've not seen over what period the compalints were made.

(Tangentially, I know someone who was raped, she said the police were very good with her, and it was Rape Crisis who were making her feel like it was her own fault.)

You get problematic situations in all walks of life. You get doctors and nurses who murder patients. You get teachers who are nonces, whether in their schools or outside, you get accountants and solicitors who embezzle their clients' money, and so on.

We don't tend to label all the members of these professions on the basis of the behaviour of a minority of their colleagues.

That depends whether they're watching it happen and turning a blind eye. In the case of the NHS there are those who publically admit the lying and cover ups are endemic, so once people see that it's openly acknowledged and nothing gets done about it, that's a green light for murder. As an outsider, you might find that your view of it would be somewhat different if it were you that's been harmed by them.

 

[Bazzer]

While in no way condoning such behaviour, it would be interesting to know the statistical correlation for those figures between the Police force and Society in total.

Wouldn't the basis for any comparisons be meaningless, given;
there is under reporting in society in general,
the Met and possibly other forces, are unable to identify/deal with, all alleged offenders in their own ranks,
other groups such as religious orders have a history of actively hiding offenders.

 

[multitool]

That depends whether they're watching it happen and turning a blind eye. In the case of the NHS there are those who publically admit the lying and cover ups are endemic, so once people see that it's openly acknowledged and nothing gets done about it, that's a green light for murder. As an outsider, you might find that your view of it would be somewhat different if it were you that's been harmed by them.

There is a distinction, though, between medical negligence and incompetence versus wilfully committing a criminal offence, although I accept your wider point about omerta culture.

However, I think there is an accountability culture in the police. A cycling acquaintance of mine was issued with a final written warning after using the word "benders" in a team meeting, and sending a WhatsApp photo with a photographic depiction of Boris Johnson's 'letterbox'* remarks. A friend who is an SFO gave evidence against a colleague who arrived at the scene of sn accident and crashed his car injuring a bystander. It's clear from this that efforts are made to do the right thing. It's more a question of how successful those efforts are in an entrenched culture.

As an aside, I'd point out that the RW press is full of mockery for diversity posts in public services, without realising what they are actually for.


*Johnson published this in his newspaper column, then went on to be PM less than a year later.

 

[newfhouse]

While in no way condoning such behaviour, it would be interesting to know the statistical correlation for those figures between the Police force and Society in total.

Is it allowable for police officers to reflect societal norms for all crimes or only sexual violence?

 

[theclaud]

The police are an easy target

Not really. Chuck a harmless bit of soft fruit at one and he and five of his mates will beat you about the head with a baton.