Can the (Met) police ever change?

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D

Deleted member 49

Guest
The police service as a whole (not just the Met) is unlike any large corporation.

I don't think you'll find another civilian organisation or corporation where your safety, indeed your life, is consistently in the hands of your colleagues on a daily basis. Go against the established norms, get involved in whistle-blowing or raising concerns for correct processes and procedures and you may find yourself left out on a limb when you need help in a hurry. The police culture is very much inward looking and self-preserving. It's an Us v Them environment where Them is everyone who is not Us. Racism, homophobia, misogyny and abuse of powers are prevalent and it's a *very* brave cop who speaks up against any of that.

Stick to their rules of 'no grassing' etc. and you'll have a much easier life. Try to report any questionable or illegal behaviour and you'll become persona non grata very quickly and it won't be pleasant.

This has been ingrained in the service over many, many decades, probably back to its origins. There will be senior ranks who have lengthy service and have seen all of it first hand so know what's going on. Don't expect they'll suddenly want to clamp down on it now when they've never spoken out before.

It's going to be a long, hard task to clean out the rot.
Bit like the Army then ?
 

mudsticks

Squire
The police service as a whole (not just the Met) is unlike any large corporation.

I don't think you'll find another civilian organisation or corporation where your safety, indeed your life, is consistently in the hands of your colleagues on a daily basis. Go against the established norms, get involved in whistle-blowing or raising concerns for correct processes and procedures and you may find yourself left out on a limb when you need help in a hurry. The police culture is very much inward looking and self-preserving. It's an Us v Them environment where Them is everyone who is not Us. Racism, homophobia, misogyny and abuse of powers are prevalent and it's a *very* brave cop who speaks up against any of that.

Stick to their rules of 'no grassing' etc. and you'll have a much easier life. Try to report any questionable or illegal behaviour and you'll become persona non grata very quickly and it won't be pleasant.

This has been ingrained in the service over many, many decades, probably back to its origins. There will be senior ranks who have lengthy service and have seen all of it first hand so know what's going on. Don't expect they'll suddenly want to clamp down on it now when they've never spoken out before.

It's going to be a long, hard task to clean out the rot.

So you can see why many from those 'out groups' - Not white, not male, not straight, have deep suspicions around the police.
And find it hard to trust them.

You can see why there are calls to defund the police, as it exists right now, and create alternative models.

Maybe they thought by bringing in a gay female this would be get tackled.

But that clearly hasn't worked, as the misogyny / racism / homophobia appears to be systemically entrenched.
As it is in parts of society .

Something has to change in a big way , if trust is to be rebuilt.

Perhaps taking models of operation from countries (or organisations) where they do better.
I'm sure there are large numbers of already serving police who would want to see this sorted out, so they can do their jobs more effectively.

Bit like the Army then ?
Maybe, but the army is something different again.its primary job is not to be in contact with, or directly serve the public on a daily basis.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Is the Army civilian? I thought it was military
I was referring to the similarities....as in.

I don't think you'll find another civilian organisation or corporation where your safety, indeed your life, is consistently in the hands of your colleagues on a daily basis. Go against the established norms, get involved in whistle-blowing or raising concerns for correct processes and procedures and you may find yourself left out on a limb when you need help in a hurry.
Did I say it needed to be civilian or otherwise ? There both there to serve and protect us aren't they.
 

BoldonLad

Old man on a bike. Not a member of a clique.
Location
South Tyneside
I was referring to the similarities....as in.

I don't think you'll find another civilian organisation or corporation where your safety, indeed your life, is consistently in the hands of your colleagues on a daily basis. Go against the established norms, get involved in whistle-blowing or raising concerns for correct processes and procedures and you may find yourself left out on a limb when you need help in a hurry.
Did I say it needed to be civilian or otherwise ? There both there to serve and protect us aren't they.

Ok, chill. To me, @Glasgowcyclist’s post was making the point that the Police are unusual in CIVILIAN Organisations, for the reasons he listed. I took the civilian aspect to be key. Clearly, you didn’t see it that way. For what it is worth, the Fire Service May be the nearest comparative organisation (IMHO).
 

mudsticks

Squire
They're going to need to bring in someone who is prepared to make themselves deeply unpopular with certain sections of the rank and file, in order that in the long run, the 'service' really does have the trust of the vast majority of the general public, and becomes a service that attracts and retains the 'right sort' so there is a culture of as close as possible to zero tolerance of unprofessional behaviour.

According to this article

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-problems-she-could-barely-admit-they-existed

That culture change in The Met did happen fairly effectively in the 70's - I don't know if anyone here has first hand experience of that time and place ??
 

deptfordmarmoset

Über Member
Lifted from the Good Law Project:

We are today publishing our Grounds for seeking a judicial review of the Metropolitan Police’s initial refusal to investigate the Downing Street lockdown parties, and the Met’s response. The Met had previously insisted that some of the contents of these documents be kept confidential, but we are now publishing them.

We can reveal that the Met had an unpublished policy of not “normally” investigating retrospective lockdown breaches. However, where “not investigating… would significantly undermine the legitimacy of the law” that would point towards investigating.

The Met’s decision not to investigate is difficult to understand. It is hard to avoid concluding that the Met decided it didn’t want to investigate, and then scrambled to reverse engineer a justification for this.

Their justification is itself remarkable. It includes reference to the fact that:

  • “Downing Street… have already stated that Covid rules were followed”
  • “anyone who was at the gathering would be entitled to refuse to answer questions because of the privilege against self-incrimination”
  • because the Cabinet Office was looking into possible breaches there was no need for the Met to investigate as well.
These are extraordinary points. They create a different set of laws for those in high office.

The Met would not accept your assurance that you hadn’t committed a crime. It would not refuse to ask you questions because of the privilege against self-incrimination. And it would certainly not decline to investigate you because you had appointed a subordinate to look into the matter instead. Yet these are all allowances gifted to the Government.

Moreover, as the policy itself highlights, some reported breaches of the law potentially undermine the legitimacy of the law itself. It is difficult to imagine a clearer example of this than government officials, potentially including the Prime Minister, breaching the rules.

All of this is profoundly troubling. It points to a Met that does not want to investigate potential criminality in Government, or to a police force that is excessively deferential to those in power. It is a policy which dramatically undermines the rule of law.

Good Law Project is considering whether or not to continue with the judicial review. We wanted the Met to reconsider its decision not to investigate and, after we issued judicial review proceedings, the Met did just that. We believe it is in the public interest to have real transparency over the Met’s decision making, and the publication of those pleadings with this blog serves that end.

We will make a final decision shortly.


Good Law Project only exists thanks to donations from people across the UK. If you’re in a position to support our work, you can do so here.

You can read the grounds for our judicial review here. And the Met’s response here.
 

stowie

Active Member
  • “Downing Street… have already stated that Covid rules were followed”
  • “anyone who was at the gathering would be entitled to refuse to answer questions because of the privilege against self-incrimination”
  • because the Cabinet Office was looking into possible breaches there was no need for the Met to investigate as well.

"The MET police didn't investigate Dave's Romford lockup packed with Albanian Marlboro Lights because
  • He had already stated that he had followed all the rules
  • Anyone who was involved would be entitled to refuse to answer questions
  • Big Derek who runs the pub quiz at Dave's local was looking into any possible breaches of the rules."
 

deptfordmarmoset

Über Member
"The MET police didn't investigate Dave's Romford lockup packed with Albanian Marlboro Lights because
  • He had already stated that he had followed all the rules
  • Anyone who was involved would be entitled to refuse to answer questions
  • Big Derek who runs the pub quiz at Dave's local was looking into any possible breaches of the rules."
I hear the Met is looking for someone right now. You should put yourself forward!:laugh:
 

Beebo

Veteran
Dick is staying on for 2 months to oversee the handover.

Khan is now in discussions over whether to agree her potential £400k pay off.

Her £100k annual pension is quite rightly untouchable.
 

stowie

Active Member

Met Police commander who wrote drug strategy faces dismissal for taking cannabis, LSD and magic mushrooms

Sounds like one hell of a night out.

I note that evidence included photo shared on WhatsApp of cannabis on a table. He seems to possess the sort of intelligence we desperately need from senior police officers....
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Sounds like one hell of a night out.

I note that evidence included photo shared on WhatsApp of cannabis on a table. He seems to possess the sort of intelligence we desperately need from senior police officers....
Bet it was one of those 'non partys' where he popped in for 10 mins only....
I'm jealous 🙄
 
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