Death penalty

[theclaud]

why not kill the likes of Myra Hindley, the Krays, Lee Rigbys killer, the Soham murderer etc etc

Cos three of them of them are already dead, for a start.

 

[theclaud]

It won't be a wedge issue

Your track record in spotting wedge issues is not really reassuring me, here.

 

[theclaud]

You do realise how unoriginal that is, I've been hearing it for almost 50 yrs!

Didn't realise Shep was your actual name. Condolences.

 

[icowden]

Simple question, why not kill the likes of Myra Hindley, the Krays, Lee Rigbys killer, the Soham murderer etc etc I assume you're satisfied they were guilty?

OK, simple answer:-

1. Two wrongs do not make a right
2. Myra Hindley and Ian Huntley would not have been executed - people were hoping up until the day they died that they would give up the location of the bodies of some of their victims.
3. Ronnie Kray was certfied insane. This would have exempted him from the death penalty. Reggie Kray was convicted of murder but this was not backed by DNA evidence only witness testimony, thus might not be eligible for the 100% certain rule.

So from your extensive list that leave the killers of Lee Rigby. Personally I'd rather that they spend the rest of their lives being made to work, with no prison privileges and every single penny of their pay sent to Lee Rigby's son.

 

[C R]

OK, simple answer:-

1. Two wrongs do not make a right
2. Myra Hindley and Ian Huntley would not have been executed - people were hoping up until the day they died that they would give up the location of the bodies of some of their victims.
3. Ronnie Kray was certfied insane. This would have exempted him from the death penalty. Reggie Kray was convicted of murder but this was not backed by DNA evidence only witness testimony, thus might not be eligible for the 100% certain rule.

So from your extensive list that leave the killers of Lee Rigby. Personally I'd rather that they spend the rest of their lives being made to work, with no prison privileges and every single penny of their pay sent to Lee Rigby's son.

Bah, facts, you can prove anything with facts.

 

[multitool]

It's a shame Shep didn't understand my earlier post about fading cultural memory.

When it comes to the issue of the death penalty, we have a huge bank of study into its effectiveness or otherwise as well as the history of why it was suspended in 1964 and ultimately removed completely in 1998. Of course, in order to understand the history you first have to read it.

Not only do we have this, but we also have examples of other countries' paths to abolition, as well as current use of the death penalty in countries such as the USA, where its costs and inequities are stark.

Of course, there will always be those that won't or can't do the research and reflection and instead reach for the reflexive and the impulsive, farting their dumbfukkingstupid opinions straight out of their faceholes bypassing any cerebral input, and then wearing their ignorance as a badge of pride.

 

[Deleted member 28]

OK, simple answer:-

1. Two wrongs do not make a right
2. Myra Hindley and Ian Huntley would not have been executed - people were hoping up until the day they died that they would give up the location of the bodies of some of their victims.
3. Ronnie Kray was certfied insane. This would have exempted him from the death penalty. Reggie Kray was convicted of murder but this was not backed by DNA evidence only witness testimony, thus might not be eligible for the 100% certain rule.

So from your extensive list that leave the killers of Lee Rigby. Personally I'd rather that they spend the rest of their lives being made to work, with no prison privileges and every single penny of their pay sent to Lee Rigby's son.

Did Huntley kill others then?

Fuc*k insanity.

Good point making them suffer in prison but they don't thanks to the 'goody goody ' brigade.

Good point about Hindley, which is why we need torture.

 

[newfhouse]

wearing their ignorance as a badge of pride.

An allowable self-identity.

 

[newfhouse]

View: https://twitter.com/newsthump/status/1623657586745540609?s=61&t=TXEcLwVf0efPfyZfhrtKog

 

[C R]

Whenever this kind of defence of general tough on crime strategies comes up, it is worth pointing out Menken's ditty:
"For every complex problem there's a solution that is obvious, simple and wrong"

 

[spen666]

View: https://twitter.com/newsthump/status/1623657586745540609?s=61&t=TXEcLwVf0efPfyZfhrtKog

Even without that gem, how many times do we see people confessing to crimes on TV in say Iran, Saudi , China etc which are clearly obtasined through torture. Video confessions are not proof that is conclusive.
Many people admit to crimes they have not committed even without torture

 

[Unkraut]

The death penalty isn’t a deterrent. People still commit awful crimes in countries that have it.
So what is the point of it other than to throw red meat to idiots.
Civilised societies don’t kill people as punishment.

How about the death penalty is to show the value of human life? You don't hang a man for stealing a sheep, but conversely is it justice to treat premeditated murder as a form of robbery? A tooth for a life as it were.

This means any deterrent value is not relevant, nor a desire to get revenge on the part of say the family of a victim.

A person who values life so little as to take it can hardly complain if they forfeit their own. They are being treated according to their own standards.

As for the problem of proving guilt, which is a real one, you could make a capital sentence dependent on absolute proof of guilt. The terrorist who murders in broad daylight.

Good point making them suffer in prison but they don't thanks to the 'goody goody ' brigade.

Good point about Hindley, which is why we need torture.

Murder starts in the heart long before the trigger is pulled. It starts with a surfeit of self love, and anger and contempt towards others.

In saying what you say here you are, unwittingly I hope, taking on the mentality that can lead to murder in the first place.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Good point about Hindley, which is why we need torture.

Now you are just winding up the liberals?

 

[icowden]

Good point about Hindley, which is why we need torture.

Ah yes, torture. One of the most unreliable processes ever.

Shane O’Mara, Professor of Experimental Brain Research at Trinity College, Dublin, reviews available evidence on torture, interrogation, and brain function under stress.6 Torture may get people to do things they don’t want to do, but this does not mean it extracts real information. He cites extensive evidence that stress, fear, and pain undermine the brain’s executive functions, including recall and cognition, making memory fallible, and pushing individuals into confabulation that they may actually believe. Memories are not recorded chronologically; they are fragile, subject to revision and loss with time, suggestion, and new information. Memory reconstructs; it does not reproduce.

O’Mara describes evidence that punitive behaviour encourages lies, not truth. Truth requires cooperation, which does not result from aversive therapy and violation of social norms. Stress modifies pain perception.7 The experience of pain is unpredictable and non-linear. Pain management is a learned technique, and individuals withstand pain to a far greater degree than they, or interrogators, anticipate. He suggests, chillingly, that there is probably no technique for creating pain that will induce a well-prepared individual to reveal information before going into shock or a dissociative state. Torture makes confession more likely, but such confessions are unreliable: false confessions are easy to elicit.8 Men tortured in Turkey in 2013 describe giving interrogators random names to make it stop. Those named were also arrested, and tortured for more names.9

The CIA’s enhanced interrogation programme was, by its own admission, ineffective, morally catastrophic, and founded on fiction. CIA operatives admitted they based their approach on Jack Bauer, a character in 24 for whom torture generally saves the day. The Senate report is dark but essential reading for a president claiming moral authority in the ‘war against terror’.4 Wanting something to be true doesn’t make it so. As O’Mara says, using torture to obtain information is the equivalent of evolving a cure for leukaemia out of your own inner consciousness. Mr Trump should take note.

 

[newfhouse]

Now you are just winding up the liberals?

He’s just pointing at what he’s left in his potty, hoping for a reaction.