F*ck the Tories: a Thread Dedicated to Suella Braverman

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Bromptonaut

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
The report is in the Daily Mail and has a slant which makes it difficult to extract the facts.

It does however seem to be clear that a male student, probably in Highland Dress (ie a kilt) raped at least one female student in an apparently unisex restroom. Whether it is, in the Mail's phrase, 'trans friendly' 'cos it's been made that way or whether in Mail land in unisex loo is part of a Trans plot is moot.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
I'm not going through the EA again for you. The Children's Commissioner, the EU and United Nations (you've invoked them a few times), or any other person or institution, doesn't get to override UK law. I suggest you join Stonewall in their campaign to do away with all EA single sex exemptions; until which time the law allows them.

Trans people are amongst the safest demographics in the UK btw. They are not 'frequently subject to murder'. (I would imagine rape stats are not fully available and, as with all rapes, likely under reported anyway).
 

monkers

Guru
The report is in the Daily Mail and has a slant which makes it difficult to extract the facts.

It does however seem to be clear that a male student, probably in Highland Dress (ie a kilt) raped at least one female student in an apparently unisex restroom. Whether it is, in the Mail's phrase, 'trans friendly' 'cos it's been made that way or whether in Mail land in unisex loo is part of a Trans plot is moot.

The facts of the case are found here, which I hope to be a more reliable source ...

https://www.loudoun.gov/specialgrandjury

Aside from the comments made by CXRAndy, bathrooms are not the common denominator in the attacks. There was another sexual attack which took place after the same assailant dragged another girl from a corridor and attacked her in a classroom.

After his first attack in one school, he was prevented from going to that school, but was permitted to enrol at another. There were case files, but these were not available.
 
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Bromptonaut

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
The EA provides rights and protections to several groups with protected characteristics (PCs). Given that the PCs listed include both sex and gender reassignment it's clear, in the context we're discussing here, that there is scope for the rights of one PC to conflict with those of another.

While the EHRC (or non UK bodies) can publish guidelines, offer a view on how such conflicts can be managed at the end of the day, push>shove, it will be for a court to decide. Balancing the rights of one group v another or where legislation itself creates conflict or tension is pretty standard stuff for the Judiciary. See the Right to Family Life etc v Freedom of the Media.
 

monkers

Guru
I'm not going through the EA again for you. The Children's Commissioner, the EU and United Nations (you've invoked them a few times), or any other person or institution, doesn't get to override UK law. I suggest you join Stonewall in their campaign to do away with all EA single sex exemptions; until which time the law allows them.

Trans people are amongst the safest demographics in the UK btw. They are not 'frequently subject to murder'. (I would imagine rape stats are not fully available and, as with all rapes, likely under reported anyway).

The European Court of Human Rights is not much to do with the EU, but everything to do with the Council of Europe of which the UK is a founding member. As such the UK has agreed that the ECtHR is our supreme arbiter. The ECtHR is the final point where UK citizens can complain of a breach of their human rights. This is why UK courts are obliged in UK law to consider not just UK domestic legislation but international human rights law.

There's nothing I can do to stop you believing that one opinion of the EqA by one person known to be afflicted by all kinds of bigotry is the correct one. However I am free to point out that if you choose to do so, you are subscribing to the same bigotry.
 
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Bromptonaut

Bromptonaut

Rohan Man
A heterosexual hormonal boy walks into a a girl's loo and rapes her. Boy leaves that school, attends a second school and enters a loo that is 'transgender friendly', walks into the loo and rapes a second girl.

When my OH announced to her then academic research Chemistry colleagues she was going to train as a Secondary School teacher the response of one of them, an American, was "Ahh Liz, the walking gonads".
 
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monkers

Guru
When my OH announced to her then academic research Chemistry colleagues she was going to train as a Secondary School teacher the response one of them, an American, was "Ahh Liz, the walking gonads".

Almost every secondary school teacher in the land checks their new timetable in September desperately hoping not to see any year 9 classes.

In one case I know about, a teacher (who I believe was being punished by management for 'not fitting in') was given a majority of year 9 work. It had the effect the managers wanted - she gave a term's notice to quit.
 

Julia9054

Regular
Almost every secondary school teacher in the land checks their new timetable in September desperately hoping not to see any year 9 classes.

In one case I know about, a teacher (who I believe was being punished by management for 'not fitting in') was given a majority of year 9 work. It had the effect the managers wanted - she gave a term's notice to quit.

I dunno.
I quite like year 9.
 

AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
There's nothing I can do to stop you believing that one opinion of the EqA by one person known to be afflicted by all kinds of bigotry is the correct one. However I am free to point out that if you choose to do so, you are subscribing to the same bigotry.
It's not one person (Braverman). The EHRC itself have made it clear what the law has always said. If it didn't say that then Stonewall itself wouldn't be campaigning to remove all the exemptions about single sex spaces. I've given you the links and screenshots umpteen times but you insist that no such exemptions exist. This is just an attempt to confuse people about what the law says. You can regard the EA exemptions as bigoted if you like, many don't and are very glad it exists.

As usual though we are going over old stuff ad nauseum.
 

monkers

Guru
It's not one person (Braverman). The EHRC itself have made it clear what the law has always said. If it didn't say that then Stonewall itself wouldn't be campaigning to remove all the exemptions about single sex spaces. I've given you the links and screenshots umpteen times but you insist that no such exemptions exist. This is just an attempt to confuse people about what the law says. You can regard the EA exemptions as bigoted if you like, many don't and are very glad it exists.

As usual though we are going over old stuff ad nauseum.

It's your persistence to adhere to nonsense rather than facts that marks you out.

I've already said, Badenoch, Truss, Johnson, Sunak and others are of a similar mindset, however their opinions, however much you value them were not manifesto pledges, not in the Queen's Speech, and although I haven't read it, I don't believe they were in the recent King's Speech.

We know that this government have an unhealthy disregard for democracy, and a disrespect of citizens at large. We also know that this government have successfully interfered or attempted to interfere with independent bodies to suit their own ends, the BBC, Channel 4, the commission, and even the judiciary, while all the time by-passing parliament where they can.

Johnson appointed a chum to head up the BBC. Truss appointed someone with known anti-trans views to head up the commission. A previous head of the commission has spoken out against this - both the means of appointment, and her views.

This arrangement no doubt suits your purposes, but it is at least undemocratic, and worst corrupt. You might think this if 'fine', but I and others do not.

I am not a member of Stonewall, so I'm unsure why you to try to taunt me with this. If women are free to organise to campaign for one side of the argument, then Stonewall must surely be free to campaign on the other. My own view is that if the government make promises in law for trans health care then they must stick to it. But as we know, trans people are stuck on waiting lists for first appointment with a five year queue. Also worth remembering that barrister Alison Bailey lost her complaint against Stonewall in court.

My opinion is similar to that of the Select Committee; that if the government will not keep to the promises it made and set out in law, then it needs to do something else to instead. On that basis I will say that we need to introduce self-ID but as I've said before I would want to see certain safeguards. To this end I think the Scots had pretty much the right idea - a reduction from two year medicalised process to a six month process with risk assessment leading the safeguarding concerns.

The EHRC has made it clear what the chair thinks - many of the staff left alleging transphobia from a person known to hold anti-trans views.

That body hold an advisory role. They can not change the law, or reinterpret it into something other than parliament intended.

There are correct democratic process for this that the government refuses to follow. I will guess that this is because they know that the legal democratic routes will lead to failure.

People hold the right to look to the domestic courts for effective remedy. If they fail under the domestic system all the way up to the UK Supreme Court, they are at liberty to seek effective remedy at the European Court of Human Rights, whose role is to ensure that human rights are not be abused at state level. There is evidence that human rights are being abused at state level. The ECtHR, the Council of Europe, and the women's groups at the United Nations have been warning.

The democratic solution is not found by groups of women cheering on Glinner who shouted at the United Nations women's group, 'to go fark themselves'.
 
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AuroraSaab

Legendary Member
If the law is as you say it is Stonewall wouldn't be campaigning to change it. They wouldn't need to campaign. If they were confident the law is as you say they would be taking service providers to court every week for not adhering to it. They aren't. Old stuff though once again.

Perhaps the footballer from last week will follow through with their threat to sue and put us all out of our misery.
 

monkers

Guru
If the law is as you say it is Stonewall wouldn't be campaigning to change it. They wouldn't need to campaign. If they were confident the law is as you say they would be taking service providers to court every week for not adhering to it. They aren't. Old stuff though once again.

Perhaps the footballer from last week will follow through with their threat to sue and put us all out of our misery.

You what? That makes no sense to me.

Stonewall are calling for Self-Id among other things. The current law doesn't provide for it - on that we should be able to agree. The all party select committee advised the government to change the law. The United Nations are urging member states to adopt it. Quite a few have.

My argument is that the government shouldn't change it without permission from parliament who passed the current agreements into law. To do otherwise is undemocratic.

In the case of Scotland, the government used devolved powers to develop the law as they saw fit, and the UK government (again without the permission of parliament) have vetoed what is a devolved power. You might like that they have, but it is undemocratic.
 
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