Gender again. Sorry!

[monkers]

Men are 50% of the population. They aren't a minority.

We were discussing transphobia not androgyny. Trans people are not 50% if the population. Where is your head at?

 

[monkers]

And what differentiates the 2 groups is sex, not gender identity.

What differentiates the two groups of sex in humans is homology. What the law does is give trans people equal rights in law to cis people, with a high bar to treat them anything but the same. Unfortunately the law, and this is a point of sadness for me, is not so kind to intersex people.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Intersex people are male or female. They have nothing to do with gender identity.

The differing premises being Bromptonauts facts versus your opinions - of course you see that as lame.

Saying a piece of paper makes you a woman is about as far from a fact as you can get.

What differentiates the two groups of sex in humans is homology.

What makes men and women different is being the same? It really is a denial of women's experience of 10,000 years on the planet to say that their oppression isn't sex based - ie based on their biological differences from men.

 

[classic33]

Everyone must be included however ludicrous that position might seem. If an autistic 12 year old wants to take hormones and have their penis removed, that's fine - they are just expressing themselves and being true to themselves. We should not question their motives nor offer interventions from Mental Health services because it's just a normal part of growing up.

Wouldn't that require an adult to consent on the boys behalf, autism or not, at that age?
Especially on the surgical side.

 

[monkers]

Intersex people are male or female. They have nothing to do with gender identity.

You raised sex-based rights with me. People with an intersex condition are at a disadvantage. Intersex people have sex-based convention rights too, though unrecognised in the UK, so relevant to the topic.

 

[monkers]

Saying a piece of paper makes you a woman is about as far from a fact as you can get.

It's the legal position so a perfectly valid premise. I believe it is also Mr. B's moral position, so again a perfectly valid premise.

 

[classic33]

You are either ignorant of how women's day to day lives are affected by simply being female, compared to how little their sex impacts men, or you know but don't really have much interest. Either way, it's a privileged position because your ignorance or apathy has no detrimental affect on you at all. You can afford to be either or both.

You were the one that said Olive Smelt was partially to blame for being attacked as she walked home from work at night.
Olive Smelt, in case you need reminding, "survived" the attack that night.

The fact that the area she worked in, and the pub she had been seen, are now in a less than ideal part of the town swayed your judgment of her. Guilty, and partially to blame for walking home after a days work.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Many positions are moral positions. It says nothing about whether they are based in reality. 'A piece of paper makes you a woman' is neither a moral position nor a credible one when the consequences for women and girls are detrimental.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You raised sex-based rights with me. People with an intersex condition are at a disadvantage. Intersex people have sex-based convention rights too, though unrecognised in the UK, so relevant to the topic.

Intersex people have the same sex based rights as everybody else who is that sex, which will be either male or female. Unrelated to gender identity.

 

[monkers]

Many positions are moral positions. It says nothing about whether they are based in reality. 'A piece of paper makes you a woman' is neither a moral position nor a credible one when the consequences for women and girls are detrimental.

It is a perfectly valid standpoint among people who know they have a gender identity and through that know who they are. I understand that if you don't have a sense of your gender identity that makes it difficult for you.

It's difficult for a person blind from birth to experience to fully understand the concept of colour, but I'm not aware of any one blind person saying that colour can not exist.

For the benefit of peace and inclusion you should reconsider.

 

[monkers]

Intersex people have the same sex based rights as everybody else who is that sex, which will be either male or female. Unrelated to gender identity.

There are intersex people who would be very disappointed to see this answer. They know that sex is not binary and immutable because they do not feel that they fit this binary concoction.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It is a perfectly valid standpoint among people who know they have a gender identity and through that know who they are. I understand that if you don't have a sense of your gender identity that makes it difficult for you.

It's difficult for a person blind from birth to experience to fully understand the concept of colour, but I'm not aware of any one blind person saying that colour can not exist.

For the benefit of peace and inclusion you should reconsider.

What a patronising response. Like telling someone they have a Christian soul even if they aren't aware of it, or their chakras are out of alignment even if they can't see it. I don't need to reconsider the existence of gendered souls anymore than I need to reconsider the existence of star signs.

I'm also very comfortable with my position on the non-inclusion of men in women's spaces, services, and sports. It's a position that brings me great peace.

 

[classic33]

It's not a coincidence that men comit 95% plus of sex crimes and that the victims are mostly female.

The percentage has change, again. Care to say why?

Whilst you're at it, why do the records show the arrest rate for sexual offences(in England) are higher for women than they are for men.

 

[monkers]

What a patronising response. Like telling someone they have a Christian soul even if they aren't aware of it, or their chakras are out of alignment even if they can't see it. I don't need to reconsider the existence of gendered souls anymore than I need to reconsider the existence of star signs.

I'm also very comfortable with my position on the non-inclusion of men in women's spaces, services, and sports. It's a position that brings me great peace.

Of course you don't. Your response is very typical of all the others. I shouldn't have expected to see a kinder side to your nature. I admit my mistake.

 

[Ian H]

Nature evolves, usually to environmental opportunities. Trans isn't an evolution of humans development .

In natural selection, genetic mutations that are beneficial to an individual's survival are passed on through reproduction

Trans women can't reproduce with males, so will be discarded through natural selection

Common misunderstanding of how evolution/natural selection works.