Gender again. Sorry!

[AndyRM]

Ive said that, others have too.

What, trans are trying to do is get everyone to subscribe to their way of life, words, access to areas that should not be allowed for the opposite sex.

That's one of the most impressive and at the same time stupidest sweeping generalisations I've read in some time.

I don't think I've ever, and I mean ever, seen anyone say you should subscribe to my way of life as a trans person. The words thing is just asking people to respect pronouns or chosen names, and not deadname people, which really isn't difficult. I've said all I have the energy or desire to say about shared spaces.

Have you ever actually met anyone who's trans? Or do you just get all your information from fools on YouTube and ill informed bozos on GBeebies?

I look forward to your usual "it's common sense" or "trans ideology" based response.

 

[monkers]

Ive said that, others have too.

What, trans are trying to do is get everyone to subscribe to their way of life, words, access to areas that should not be allowed for the opposite sex.

You've previously said all kinds of crap too, and often it is from an inverted (perverted) position due to the feebleness of the bigot's mind.

This stuff is the right wing nutters conspiracy theory, that trans women's motive for transition is to access female spaces for nefarious purposes. Yet there is no evidence that they do. There is never the suggestion that trans men transition in order to get access to men - funny that!

Trans people transition because it enables them to live a more authentic and fruitful life. That is what human rights are for. Trans people transition as a human right that is protected in international and UK law.

Bigots foolishly often think they, or at least their opinions, are bigger than the law.

 

[multitool]

1990's AndyCXR was saying exactly the same thing about gay people.

 

[Deleted member 159]

There is never the suggestion that trans men transition in order to get access to men - funny that!

But that's what they are demanding -Funny that!

 

[icowden]

This stuff is the right wing nutters conspiracy theory, that trans women's motive for transition is to access female spaces for nefarious purposes.

I don't think it is. The concern is that some more deviant men may take the guise of a transwoman in order to access female spaces for nefarious purposes. Certainly there is some evidence to suggest looking at the violent offenders who have been detained and who claim to be trans, that this is not beyond the bounds of belief.

Yet there is no evidence that they do. There is never the suggestion that trans men transition in order to get access to men - funny that!

Because, as has been pointed out, women do not offend in the same way that men do and men are bigger and stronger. It is also impossible for a transman to rape a man or a woman other than by using an implement. It is still possible for a transwoman who has not had surgery or hormone treatment to rape a woman and impregnate her.

Trans people transition because it enables them to live a more authentic and fruitful life. That is what human rights are for. Trans people transition as a human right that is protected in international and UK law.

And I think everyone, even @CXRAndy would agree with that. But at the moment, all you need to do to transition in some people's eyes is put on a dress and tell people your name is Sandra. Neither your sincerity nor your sanity may be questioned because you are just being your authentic self. What I think some of us are suggesting is that if "being your authentic self" involves harassing or degrading women, exposing yourself in women's bathrooms or threatening to punch or kill women, then frankly you don't deserve the respect that you are asking for, and indeed you are effectively cosplaying being a woman for your own benefit. Hence the heated exchange between JK Rowling and India Willoughby.

 

[AndyRM]

But that's what they are demanding -Funny that!

I know your view of this essentially boils down to sex and genitals, but people who transition really aren't doing it for gratification or nefarious means.

I tell you what, find an example of one person, FTM, MTF, top, full reassignment surgery who's come out and said, "Aye, I did it so that I could beat the women at sports/make myself more attractive to a specific gender" and you might have some sort of point.

As it is you've got "blokes in dresses are perverted weirdos, hur hur hur", probably chuckled while drinking a pint of weak bitter in a miserable pub whilst winking at the rest of your "common sense" pals.

At least that's how I imagine it. Which might sound weird, but is actually pretty entertaining for me.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Those who have no legal protection from either act are people the majority of people under the transgender umbrella who identify with their birth sex with congruent gender identity ie they are people who like to cross dress.

Here you go again, placing your own definition on who counts as transgender and who is a cross dresser. The Equality Act doesn't require someone to announce they are transgender in order to have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Inevitably cross dressing is something that trans people with a GRC tend to do before transition, while I think the majority of cross dressing men will tell you that they have no ambition to transition.

I thought being transgender was innate, which by your revised definition of innate iirc meant appeared during childhood? At what point does cross dressing become a transition? Once the cross dresser decides it has become one, I suppose.

Speaking as a lesbian, I cross-dressed a number of times when going out to clubs in my younger days - and I 'pulled' too. On other occasions I went to bed with cross dressed women. I enjoyed it, it was fun. We shouldn't ban fun, or be uptight with people who want to have fun. Live and let live eh.

Nobody cares who sleeps with whom. Apart from men who say they are lesbians suggesting that actual lesbians should sleep with them, obviously.

More importantly, how are women to distinguish between the men who cross dress "for sexual purposes" (your words) and seek to be in women's spaces for sexual thrills and the ones who don't?

The answer of course is that we can't, and even so men shouldn't be in women's spaces because it's their being male that is the issue not their motivation.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I know your view of this essentially boils down to sex and genitals, but people who transition really aren't doing it for gratification or nefarious means.

This depends what you mean by transition. Very few men who transition have surgery. Few get a GRC. It's obvious that there are doctors, lawyers, teachers, police officers, who have thrown away their careers and risked jail to pursue sexual thrills, even at their place of work, so the idea that there are men who wouldn't claim they were women in order to enter women's spaces for kicks doesn't hold water.

 

[monkers]

But that's what they are demanding -Funny that!

They are demanding no such thing. They already have the right. Why would you think that people are demanding some right that they've already had for years. You just chat such nutjobbery.

 

[monkers]

Here you go again, placing your own definition on who counts as transgender and who is a cross dresser. The Equality Act doesn't require someone to announce they are transgender in order to have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

There's a legal definition for this - it is gender reassignment. A cross-dresser does not have this protected characteristic without first telling their GP that they intend to transition.

Transgender is an inclusive term for all people on the T spectrum.

What I and the ever-patient @Bromptonaut has explained to you, is that when interpreting Ministry of Justice data is that you must interpret according to their definitions, not in some random way, or in some way to willfully deceive others.

It's clear that you have absolutely no knowledge of the people that you so frequently pass your value judgements on - which is actually quite a handy definition of bigotry. Whereas I have a looooooong history of hanging around in gay bars listening to what people say about themselves.

 

[monkers]

I thought being transgender was innate, which by your revised definition of innate iirc meant appeared during childhood? At what point does cross dressing become a transition? Once the cross dresser decides it has become one, I suppose.

You are such a moron at times. More value judgements, no evidence, no facts. Being 'transgender' as a category is not innate. How many times do I need to repeat, the word is problematic for all the reasons I've already given.

 

[monkers]

involves harassing or degrading women, exposing yourself in women's bathrooms or threatening to punch or kill women,

Moral panic amuses you most doesn't it? Evidence needed for trans women (yes those women with a GRC) doing any of this.

 

[AuroraSaab]

There's a legal definition for this - it is gender reassignment. A cross-dresser does not have this protected characteristic without first telling their GP that they intend to transition.

That simply isn't true. Anybody can say they are transitioning and have protection under the EA. Very few people call themselves crossdressers, for obvious reasons. You don't have to tell anybody, never mind inform your GP.

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com...lity Act, gender,sex to your preferred gender.

@Bromptonaut has explained to you, is that when interpreting Ministry of Justice data is that you must interpret according to their definitions, not in some random way, or in some way to willfully deceive others.

... which is 'transgender with a GRC' and 'transgender without a GRC'. Not 'only the GRC ones are transgender'.

You are such a moron at times. More value judgements, no evidence, no facts. Being 'transgender' as a category is not innate. How many times do I need to repeat, the word is problematic for all the reasons I've already given.

Because you flip flop on this so often it must make you dizzy. 'You are who you say you are/gender identity is innate' has become 'only trans with a GRC/the word is problematic'.

The fact is this new double standard of genuine transwomen vs crossdressers is the only way you can reconcile the number of transwomen offenders.

You still haven't explained how we are supposed to tell the difference.

 

[Deleted member 159]

So all those who don't go through with surgery are cross dressers.

This works, by the phrase, meaning men wearing women's clothing, or women wearing men's.

Everyone then knows straight off

 

[Deleted member 121]

So all those who don't go through with surgery are cross dressers.

Everyone then knows straight off

What Andy means bless him, is that HE then knows straight off. That way he stop wasting his time trying to chat em up and being a slimy git around them with a huge whiff of Brut.