Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

Hoorah!! That's exactly what we said following the Forstater case. Glad to see the courts have upheld it.

Forstater never sought that right, nor claimed it after her case. What constitutes harassment in an individual case would be for each employment tribunal to decide. I'll await a fuller analysis from legal experts but it remains legal to express your beliefs in your workplace, though it should not be done in such a way as to disadvantage or harass others.

It does sound like this teacher overstepped the mark. He was free to report any safeguarding concerns he had and should have left that for senior staff to deal with. The other stuff about names and pronouns would have been easy enough to work round without compromising his beliefs, but he chose not to.

 

[AndyRM]

See that first paragraph? That's the nub of it as I see it.

Harassment goes all ways.

 

[Mr Celine]

Harassment goes all ways.

As does hate, unfortunately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-68655579

 

[AndyRM]

As does hate, unfortunately.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-68655579

I'm non binary.

Murdo Fraser is a joke of a politician.

 

[monkers]

This makes for interesting reading:

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Lister-v-New-College-Swindon.pdf

It's the tribunal report for Kevin Lister, the Swindon teacher, who claims he was unfairly dismissed for holding 'gender critical' views whilst working at a college in the town.

He lost. Why? Because, whilst it's perfectly legal to hold the views he holds, you cannot use them to treat others badly, humiliate them or endanger them, particularly in settings such as a school where you have a responsibility towards student welfare.

Not only has Lister lost his case but he has effectively ended his own career. His conduct was reported to LADO and DBS, he has been barred from participating in all regulated activities with children.

 

[multitool]

Not only has Lister lost his case but he has effectively ended his own career. His conduct was reported to LADO and DBS, he has been barred from participating in all regulated activities with children.

I've had a little mooch around his twitter feed and the first thing that struck me are the people he reposts: people like Linehan. It's clear that Lister had already dived headfirst into the GC cult, and that this was driving his actions.

Unfortunately for Lister, other people have also been digging around and have come up with this gem:

Lister appears to be saying that this case of grooming and paedophilia doesn't warrant a harsh sentence because in Lister's view the child enjoyed it.

This tweet was from 5 years ago, so well before the pronoun debacle, but it further confirms my view that at the heart of every GC cultist is a total wrong'un.

 

[AuroraSaab]

This tweet was from 5 years ago, so well before the pronoun debacle, but it further confirms my view that at the heart of every GC cultist is a total wrong'un.

I could post quite a few transactivists who are wrong 'uns. Some are convicted wrong 'uns. You posted one yourself when you platformed the cartoonist who likes wearing adult nappies and drawing sexualised pictures of baby animals, so I reckon you could say the same about 'trans cultists' as you claim about gender critical people. What they have in common is that they're almost always men, which perhaps tells you something.

Analysis of the Lister case here:


View: https://twitter.com/michaelpforan/status/1773388859616702882


'Manifestation of belief is protected unless it is proportionate to interfere with it' ... which seems a straightforward and common sense way to proceed in such cases, though every case will be different of course.

 

[monkers]

I could post quite a few transactivists who are wrong 'uns. Some are convicted wrong 'uns. You posted one yourself when you platformed the cartoonist who likes wearing adult nappies and drawing sexualised pictures of baby animals, so I reckon you could say the same about 'trans cultists' as you claim about gender critical people. What they have in common is that they're almost always men, which perhaps tells you something.

Analysis of the Lister case here:


View: https://twitter.com/michaelpforan/status/1773388859616702882


'Manifestation of belief is protected unless it is proportionate to interfere with it' ... which seems a straightforward and common sense way to proceed in such cases, though every case will be different of course.

What an absurd attempt to defend Lister. Have you any idea how this make you look?

 

[multitool]

I could post quite a few transactivists who are wrong 'uns. Some are convicted wrong 'uns.

So what?

The world isn't divided into Terfs and TRAs.

 

[AuroraSaab]

What an absurd attempt to defend Lister. Have you any idea how this make you look?

It's not a defence of Lister but how predictably disingenuous of you to pretend it is.

So what? The world isn't divided into Terfs and TRAs.

If you're going to pursue the guilt by association thing endlessly you should at least be prepared to see it applied it to those who share your views and are also 'wrong 'uns' rather than reserving it just for those with gender critical views.

More guilt by association news. ABC in Australia have issued a clarification ref K J Keen for suggesting she was associated with Neo Nazis. Damages paid apparently

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...ws-story/4e488d0d18411b4405f8140b9a675614?amp

 

[monkers]

It's not a defence of Lister but how predictably disingenuous of you to pretend it is.



If you're going to pursue the guilt by association thing endlessly you should at least be prepared to see it applied it to those who share your views and are also 'wrong 'uns' rather than reserving it just for those with gender critical views.

More guilt by association news. ABC in Australia have issued a clarification ref K J Keen for suggesting she was associated with Neo Nazis. Damages paid apparently

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/abc-issues-clarification-reaches-settlement-over-kelliejay-keen-portrayal/news-story/4e488d0d18411b4405f8140b9a675614?amp

MT provided insights into the character of Lister which precede the legal case. There is even an opinion expressed that female teachers should not face proceedings for sexual abuse of teenage boys because those boys are probably having the time of their lives.

You mention 'wrong'uns' and criminal convictions before going on to talk about an artist who it is said likes to wear nappies and draw animals in what you say is a sexualised way (I haven't seen them).

You are seriously mis-stepping here. To the best of my knowledge the artist have not been found to break the law. To make comparison with this with a teacher found guilty of child abuse is unbelievable. It does illustrate the inner working of your mind. Why am I surprised that you would stoop so low?

 

[multitool]

If you're going to pursue the guilt by association thing endlessly you should at least be prepared to see it applied it to those who share your views and are also 'wrong 'uns' rather than reserving it just for those with gender critical views.

TRAs have nothing to do with me. I don't share "their views". I don't even know what constitutes a TRA view or if it is consistent in any way. This is just another example of your whataboutery. Why don't you talk about Women's Institute members? It's about as relevant to me as talking about TRAs.

 

[Ian H]

Dr Phil Hammond, writing in Private Eye.

 

[AuroraSaab]

You are seriously mis-stepping here. To the best of my knowledge the artist have not been found to break the law. To make comparison with this with a teacher found guilty of child abuse is unbelievable. It does illustrate the inner working of your mind. Why am I surprised that you would stoop so low?

The discussion was on whether GC people are invariably 'wrong 'uns' as claimed. The point being that there are at least as many trans supporter 'wrong 'uns' as gender critical ones. As usual you are doing your disingenuous false equivalency.

TRAs have nothing to do with me. I don't share "their views".

And yet every gender critical person on the planet is referred to as Aurora's 'c*nty mates' by you. You only favour guilt by association when it goes one way.

Dr Phil Hammond, writing in Private Eye.

That cutting is a fair summary, I think. One of the issues with the long waiting lists at gender clinics is that the support children receive in the mean time is a postcode lottery dependent on their local CAMHS, ranging from months to years (as it does for all others referred, not just gender clinic patients). We need to offer a better solution than 'puberty blockers or nothing', and similarly 'anti-depressants or nothing', to those with mental health issues.

 

[multitool]

And yet every gender critical person on the planet is referred to as Aurora's 'c*nty mates' by you. You only favour guilt by association when it goes one way.

"Every"?

No. You've inserted that word. You are back to your straw manning again. Its boring.

Besides, when I was talking about your "cŭnty mates" I was talking about GCs who are cûnts*. At various points you've misrepresented that as meaning that you are a cûnt, and now that all GCs are cúnts.

You still haven't explained how you screaming " but TRAs!!!" everytine anyone mentions a GC incipient-nonce is nothing other than weird whataboutery.

*I can't be aršed to go and look back, but if memory serves I was referring to Minshull and her Nazi sympathisers.