Nurse murdered seven babies

[AndyRM]

Lets abolish all trials and just ask Andy from the internet if someone is guilty or not
Think of the huge saving in judicial costs etc by this. So what if Andy convicts innocent people of the basis of what he has read online rather than deciding on the basis of admissible evidence. They will just be collateral damage and worth it to speed things up and save costs

Comedy gold.

Funnier than the time you were banging on about that Man Utd fan and his potentially misunderstood shirt.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Lets abolish all trials and just ask Andy from the internet if someone is guilty or not
Think of the huge saving in judicial costs etc by this. So what if Andy convicts innocent people of the basis of what he has read online rather than deciding on the basis of admissible evidence. They will just be collateral damage and worth it to speed things up and save costs

As others say this is silly, or at least absurdly legally literal.

The latter has been your MO on here and on the Mothership for as long as I remember so I suspect that is the case.

All reports are that Fred West confessed to killing multiple people. He may, I suppose, have been acquitted of Murder but convicted of Manslaughter on (perhaps) Diminished Responsibility. Or he might have pleaded guilty on that basis.

Or are you seriously suggesting someone else did the deeds and poor Fred was framed?

 

[spen666]

Again you are being silly. Fred West had admitted to the murders, shown the police where the bodies were and told them how he killed them. He admitted everything (mostly in an attempt to "save" Rose). Whilst he wasn't convicted, the evidence and the confessions are such that there is absolutely no doubt that the trial was a formality. So in this case, whilst he was not convicted due to suicide we can be 99.9% confident that when we say Fred West was a Serial Killer who murdered 12 women (possibly more) that we are not defaming his character.

To say that Fred West was not a murderer as he was never convicted is just daft.

Fred West had not admitted to a number of murders. He pleaded not guilty and Fred West was awaiting trial for those murders. He had pleaded not guilty and his defence case statement was to blame Rose West alone for the murders

A trial is not a foregone conclusion. Perhaps you want equal billing with Andy to decide guilt based on stuff you read on social media and online.

Having 2 of you to decide all cases will speed up the judicial system.

Not sure how you get round Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights though which provides everyone is entitled to a fair trial

YOUR RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL IN DOMESTIC AND INTERNATIONAL LAW​

Article 6 of the Human Rights Act 1988 provides citizens in our country the right to a fair and public trial or hearing in relation to both criminal and civil matters. Section 2 of Article 6 states , “Everyone charged with a criminal offence shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty according to law”. You also have the following rights (this list is not exhaustive):

• to a trial which is fair, public, heard by an independent court or tribunal, and heard in a reasonable time.
• to be informed promptly, in detail, and in a language you understand, the nature and cause of the accusation against you;
• to have sufficient time and resources to prepare a defence;
• to defend yourself in person or with legal assistance of your own choosing;
• to examine and have examined witnesses against you, and to obtain the attendance and examination of witnesses on your behalf
• access to the free assistance of an interpreter if required.

This fundamental right to be treated as innocent until proven guilty is also an international human right under Article 11 of the UN’s Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It states that “Everyone charged with a penal offence has the right to be presumed innocent until proved guilty” and that “no one shall be held guilty of any penal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a penal offence, under national or international law, at the time when it was committed”.


https://tinyurl.com/24wb2mzy

 

[spen666]

As others say this is silly, or at least absurdly legally literal.

The latter has been your MO on here and on the Mothership for as long as I remember so I suspect that is the case.

All reports are that Fred West confessed to killing multiple people. He may, I suppose, have been acquitted of Murder but convicted of Manslaughter on (perhaps) Diminished Responsibility. Or he might have pleaded guilty on that basis.

Or are you seriously suggesting someone else did the deeds and poor Fred was framed?

Fred West was not convicted of any murders.

He had pleaded not guilty and was awaiting trial.

He died without being convicted of a single murder


You and I have been convicted of as many murders as Fred West has been.

 

[AndyRM]

Nice of you to promote me to some kind of legal arbiter @spen666. I'm sure the knowledge you have of the Fred West case far usurps my own. I look forward to your robust defence of a man who confessed to killing his daughter.

 

[Pale Rider]

his defence case statement was to blame Rose West alone for the murders

That's not widely known.

The popular fiction is Fred was making the chivalrous gesture of taking the murders on himself.

The defence statement, even if rubbish, is likely to have been believable/possible.

Very few people will ever believe Fred West was not a murderer, but his case does illustrate assumption of guilty verdicts are very risky.

 

[classic33]

Fred West was not convicted of any murders.

He had pleaded not guilty and was awaiting trial.

He died without being convicted of a single murder


You and I have been convicted of as many murders as Fred West has been.

He admitted to killing his first wife, Catherine Costello.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Fred West had not admitted to a number of murders.

Under caution, he gave 145 recorded interviews to police, spanning more than 110 hours, in which he admitted to killing numerous women, describing how he did each one, exactly how he dismembered them, and where he buried them, describing in detail how the dismembered bodies and limbs were arranged within their respective graves.

 

[AndyRM]

Under caution, he gave 145 recorded interviews to police, spanning more than 110 hours, in which he admitted to killing numerous women, describing how he did each one, exactly how he dismembered them, and where he buried them, describing in detail how the dismembered bodies and limbs were arranged within their respective graves.

Ah, but he wasn't convicted. Which is apparently the important thing for our legal beagle.

 

[BoldonLad]

Fred West was not convicted of any murders

I think you are splitting hairs a little. He wasn't convicted because he committed suicide before he could be tried for 12 murders. I don't think there is any doubt that he would not have been convicted of 12 murders, given that he had confessed to the murders and shown the cops where the bodies were buried.

No, it's not splitting hairs, it is a fact that he was not convicted of any murders.

I'd forgotten that he was on remand when he killed himself.

There's little if any room for doubt as to his guilt but, as he was dead before his cases came to trial he was not convicred.

This is ridiculous. He may not have been convicted, but he would have been. There'd have been no suggestion of a rigged trial or a pre-determined outcome.

Hitler was never tried. Are we not allowed an opinion about his guilt?

Feel free to have an opinion about anything you wish, but, that does alter @spen666's initial assertion

Again you are being silly. Fred West had admitted to the murders, shown the police where the bodies were and told them how he killed them. He admitted everything (mostly in an attempt to "save" Rose). Whilst he wasn't convicted, the evidence and the confessions are such that there is absolutely no doubt that the trial was a formality. So in this case, whilst he was not convicted due to suicide we can be 99.9% confident that when we say Fred West was a Serial Killer who murdered 12 women (possibly more) that we are not defaming his character.

To say that Fred West was not a murderer as he was never convicted is just daft.

I cannot find anyone actually saying that?

Comedy gold.

Funnier than the time you were banging on about that Man Utd fan and his potentially misunderstood shirt.

As others say this is silly, or at least absurdly legally literal.

The latter has been your MO on here and on the Mothership for as long as I remember so I suspect that is the case.

All reports are that Fred West confessed to killing multiple people. He may, I suppose, have been acquitted of Murder but convicted of Manslaughter on (perhaps) Diminished Responsibility. Or he might have pleaded guilty on that basis.

Or are you seriously suggesting someone else did the deeds and poor Fred was framed?

Fred West was not convicted of any murders.

He had pleaded not guilty and was awaiting trial.

He died without being convicted of a single murder


You and I have been convicted of as many murders as Fred West has been.

Nice of you to promote me to some kind of legal arbiter @spen666. I'm sure the knowledge you have of the Fred West case far usurps my own. I look forward to your robust defence of a man who confessed to killing his daughter.

Under caution, he gave 145 recorded interviews to police, spanning more than 110 hours, in which he admitted to killing numerous women, describing how he did each one, exactly how he dismembered them, and where he buried them, describing in detail how the dismembered bodies and limbs were arranged within their respective graves.

Ah, but he wasn't convicted. Which is apparently the important thing for our legal beagle.

I know @spen666 is an outcast, but, it would appear, his initial assertion is correct, but, we can't have that, can we?

 

[AndyRM]

Feel free to have an opinion about anything you wish, but, that does alter @spen666's initial assertion



I cannot find anyone actually saying that?













I know @spen666 is an outcast, but, it would appear, his initial assertion is correct.

He's hardly an outcast. He's as entitled to his opinion as we all are.

 

[Beebo]

I know @spen666 is an outcast, but, it would appear, his initial assertion is correct.

It’s a fact which can not be disputed but no one seriously believes that West didn’t do it. And to suggest he was a murderer is hardly stretching received legal opinion.

It all became a bit silly when it was suggested that we don’t need a trial anymore to decide guilt and that Andy has the power to decide someone’s guilt.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Ah, but he wasn't convicted. Which is apparently the important thing for our legal beagle.

Well, I can’t see him selling many ‘FRED WEST IS INNOCENT’ T-shirts.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Feel free to have an opinion about anything you wish, but, that does alter @spen666's initial assertion



I cannot find anyone actually saying that?

I know @spen666 is an outcast, but, it would appear, his initial assertion is correct, but, we can't have that, can we?

I don’t know why you’re quoting my post, I don’t dispute that Fred West evaded conviction.

 

[BoldonLad]

He's hardly an outcast. He's as entitled to his opinion as we all are.

Indeed, how generous