Nurse murdered seven babies

[Pale Rider]

The problem with referring to previous high profile cons is they were probably each sentenced under a slightly different regime.

At one tine the Home Sec decided the tariff, but then it went back to judges.

At one time the Hone Sec had the final say on release, but it now appears to be back to the parole board, although the Home Sec can appeal.

I think a couple of prisoners may have been released on compassionate grounds, but I'm far from certain they were on whole life tariffs as currently enshrined in law.

You're a remarkably verbose writer, for someone who claims to admire the succinct.

Sorry if eight sentences, while hardly War and Peace, was too much for you.

But it's worth persevering, you might learn something.

 

[Beebo]

You are right about Krays, Reggie was released on compassionate grounds, and died a couple of months later.

The Kray’s were given 30 years in 1969, not a full life term. They were eligible for parole in 1999.
One died in 1995 before parole. The other was very ill with terminal cancer and allowed out in 2000, but died 36 days later, so was so ill they were unlikely to do much harm.

 

[AndyRM]

The problem with referring to previous high profile cons is they were probably each sentenced under a slightly different regime.

At one tine the Home Sec decided the tariff, but then it went back to judges.

At one time the Hone Sec had the final say on release, but it now appears to be back to the parole board, although the Home Sec can appeal.

I think a couple of prisoners may have been released on compassionate grounds, but I'm far from certain they were on whole life tariffs as currently enshrined in law.



Sorry if eight sentences, while hardly War and Peace, was too much for you.

But it's worth persevering, you might learn something.

Oooh, this should be fun.

Go on then, what should I be learning?

 

[BoldonLad]

The Kray’s were given 30 years in 1969, not a full life term. They were eligible for parole in 1999.
One died in 1995 before parole. The other was very ill with terminal cancer and allowed out in 2000, but died 36 days later, so was so ill they were unlikely to do much harm.

Yes, I did look it up, my memory is not that good.

 

[Pale Rider]

Some online research indicates whole life orders were introduced in 1983.

At the time, the Home Secretary decided tariffs so only he could impose one.

The responsibility shifted to judges in 2003.

This means any prisoner sentenced before 1983 cannot be serving a whole life order...or does it?

Just to complicate matters a bit more, taking Brady as an example, he was sentenced in 1966, but for some reason was 'upgraded' to a whole life order in 1994.

 

[spen666]

Has anybody realistically people as notorious as Brady, Sutcliffe, Fred or Rose West etc ever be released at all, never mind to live in the community. Hindley was the only one I recall with a serious campaign. Even if she'd had gold plated proof of reform no Home Secretary would have allowed a licence for her releases.

Was one of the Krays let out to die or is my memory playing tricks??

Fred West was not convicted of any murders

 

[spen666]

Some online research indicates whole life orders were introduced in 1983.

At the time, the Home Secretary decided tariffs so only he could impose one.

The responsibility shifted to judges in 2003.

This means any prisoner sentenced before 1983 cannot be serving a whole life order...or does it?

Just to complicate matters a bit more, taking Brady as an example, he was sentenced in 1966, but for some reason was 'upgraded' to a whole life order in 1994.

It was ruled improper for a politician to decide prison sentences.

Judges were to set tariffs, and then all old cases had to be resentenced with Judge's fixing the tariff periods for lifers still in prison

 

[icowden]

Fred West was not convicted of any murders

I think you are splitting hairs a little. He wasn't convicted because he committed suicide before he could be tried for 12 murders. I don't think there is any doubt that he would not have been convicted of 12 murders, given that he had confessed to the murders and shown the cops where the bodies were buried.

 

[spen666]

I think you are splitting hairs a little. He wasn't convicted because he committed suicide before he could be tried for 12 murders. I don't think there is any doubt that he would not have been convicted of 12 murders, given that he had confessed to the murders and shown the cops where the bodies were buried.

No, it's not splitting hairs, it is a fact that he was not convicted of any murders.

 

[Bromptonaut]

No, it's not splitting hairs, it is a fact that he was not convicted of any murders.

I'd forgotten that he was on remand when he killed himself.

There's little if any room for doubt as to his guilt but, as he was dead before his cases came to trial he was not convicred.

 

[spen666]

I'd forgotten that he was on remand when he killed himself.

There's little if any room for doubt as to his guilt but, as he was dead before his cases came to trial he was not convicred.

There is little room for doubt he was not convicted of any of the alleged crimes he was accused of.

He had pleaded not guilty and was awaiting trial. He could have been convicted or acquitted unless you are suggesting trials are rigged & outcomes pre determined.

 

[AndyRM]

There is little room for doubt he was not convicted of any of the alleged crimes he was accused of.

He had pleaded not guilty and was awaiting trial. He could have been convicted or acquitted unless you are suggesting trials are rigged & outcomes pre determined.

This is ridiculous. He may not have been convicted, but he would have been. There'd have been no suggestion of a rigged trial or a pre-determined outcome.

 

[newfhouse]

There is little room for doubt he was not convicted of any of the alleged crimes he was accused of.

He had pleaded not guilty and was awaiting trial. He could have been convicted or acquitted unless you are suggesting trials are rigged & outcomes pre determined.

Hitler was never tried. Are we not allowed an opinion about his guilt?

 

[spen666]

This is ridiculous. He may not have been convicted, but he would have been. There'd have been no suggestion of a rigged trial or a pre-determined outcome.

Lets abolish all trials and just ask Andy from the internet if someone is guilty or not
Think of the huge saving in judicial costs etc by this. So what if Andy convicts innocent people of the basis of what he has read online rather than deciding on the basis of admissible evidence. They will just be collateral damage and worth it to speed things up and save costs

 

[icowden]

Lets abolish all trials and just ask Andy from the internet if someone is guilty or not
Think of the huge saving in judicial costs etc by this. So what if Andy convicts innocent people of the basis of what he has read online rather than deciding on the basis of admissible evidence. They will just be collateral damage and worth it to speed things up and save costs

Again you are being silly. Fred West had admitted to the murders, shown the police where the bodies were and told them how he killed them. He admitted everything (mostly in an attempt to "save" Rose). Whilst he wasn't convicted, the evidence and the confessions are such that there is absolutely no doubt that the trial was a formality. So in this case, whilst he was not convicted due to suicide we can be 99.9% confident that when we say Fred West was a Serial Killer who murdered 12 women (possibly more) that we are not defaming his character.

To say that Fred West was not a murderer as he was never convicted is just daft.