Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[mudsticks]

As a fellow Remainer, I agree. I do, however, think it sad that given they have had 5 years to get their act together, it is rather sad that British Industry (including Agriculture and Transport) appear to have failed miserably.

How was agriculture supposed to 'get it together'

Agriculture has been pushed towards specialist cropping by the supermarkets and by extension the consumer, for decades.

This required seasonal labour, for different crops, in different parts of the country, at different times of the year.

It always has done in some cases, think of all those people who come on here and wax lyrical about remember being little un's in the hop fields.

The only way farmers and produce growers could carry on operating was by using a seasonal , flexible labour force.

Cutting cabbages, picking strawberries, weeding carrots, killing turkeys , using gangs of workers in the fields, for time specific skilled jobs .

The last few decades those skilled workforce came from abroad

Previous to that it was Irish , or travelling people.

Was there a great Government drive to train a land based labour force to replace highly skilled, hard working Eastern European work force who came to do this work .??

Did Supermarkets, or even consumers say, yeah we're prepared to pay double to cover all the costs involved.

And we guarantee we will keep on supporting you.
So be confident in that investment .

I've been quite involved in post brexit agricultural policy , read a tonne of documents, even written a few, been to all sorts of meetings, and conferences all about it..

Only just now are defra starting to support on farm apprentice style training for these land based skills.

I'm 'lucky' , I've designed a farming model that is fairly self contained , and relocalised in terms of labour and markets .

The opposite to how everyone has been encouraged to work for decades.

Any idea what happens to all the other producers in the meantime ??

Even if farmers had 'prepared' done all the training of staff etc etc

If their markets are then undermined by cheaper produce from countries with lower environmental standards, and poorer working conditions, such as the US .

What then?

The 'average' consumer tends to buy on price alone, either through choice, necessity, or ignorance ...

So farmers and growers do all that expensive 'preparing'

Only to then go out of business fairly quickly because their produce can't compete.

 

[mudsticks]

a) I have already posted regarding Staff problems, these were obvious once the "Leaver" verdict was known (2016).

b) You have to make educated "guesses", you can use jargon words to make it sound more scientific, that is what CEO's etc are paid such high salaries for, isn't it?

c) As already stated, I am not absolving the Government of blame, but, they re not the only culprits IMHO.

Farmers are not 'high paid' CEOs

Yeah I indulged in a fancy new coat this weekend

Tax deductable even

And I can claim back the VAT

But I'm hardly putting in orders for private yacht just yet..

 

[BoldonLad]

How was agriculture supposed to 'get it together'

Agriculture has been pushed towards specialist cropping by the supermarkets and by extension the consumer, for decades.

This required seasonal labour, for different crops, in different parts of the country, at different times of the year.

It always has done in some cases, think of all those people who come on here and wax lyrical about remember being little un's in the hop fields.

The only way farmers and produce growers could carry on operating was by using a seasonal , flexible labour force.

Cutting cabbages, picking strawberries, weeding carrots, killing turkeys , using gangs of workers in the fields, for time specific skilled jobs .

The last few decades those skilled workforce came from abroad

Previous to that it was Irish , or travelling people.

Was there a great Government drive to train a land based labour force to replace highly skilled, hard working Eastern European work force who came to do this work .??

Did Supermarkets, or even consumers say, yeah we're prepared to pay double to cover all the costs involved.

And we guarantee we will keep on supporting you.
So be confident in that investment .

I've been quite involved in post brexit agricultural policy , read a tonne of documents, even written a few, been to all sorts of meetings, and conferences all about it..

Only just now are defra starting to support on farm apprentice style training for these land based skills.

I'm 'lucky' , I've designed a farming model that is fairly self contained , and relocalised in terms of labour and markets .

The opposite to how everyone has been encouraged to work for decades.

Any idea what happens to all the other producers in the meantime ??

Even if farmers had 'prepared' done all the training of staff etc etc

If their markets are then undermined by cheaper produce from countries with lower environmental standards, and poorer working conditions, such as the US .

What then?

The 'average' consumer tends to buy on price alone, either through choice, necessity, or ignorance ...

So farmers and growers do all that expensive 'preparing'

Only to then go out of business fairly quickly because their produce can't compete.

As I have said elsewhere... once the "leave" vote was known (2016), it must have been clear that labour shortages in certain Industries would occur. Sourcing alternative labour, changing business model (if possible) and/or automation (if possible) would have been a sensible approach IMHO. Again, as I have said elsewhere, I am not absolving Government (or those who voted leave, without thinking it through), merely pointing out, that IMHO, they are not alone in their unpreparedness.

 

[BoldonLad]

SOME Farmers are not 'high paid' CEOs

Yeah I indulged in a fancy new coat this weekend

Tax deductable even

And I can claim back the VAT

But I'm hardly putting in orders for private yacht just yet..

 

[cookiemonster]

As I have said elsewhere... once the "leave" vote was known (2016), it must have been clear that labour shortages in certain Industries would occur. Sourcing alternative labour, changing business model (if possible) and/or automation (if possible) would have been a sensible approach IMHO. Again, as I have said elsewhere, I am not absolving Government (or those who voted leave, without thinking it through), merely pointing out, that IMHO, they are not alone in their unpreparedness.

But we were all told that there'd be no problems, we wouldn't be leaving the SM or CU and there'd be sunny uplands/cherry on cakes etc etc.

So, how can any business plan for this nightmare when they were told that there's no need to?

No-one could plan for this.

 

[FishFright]

a) I have already posted regarding Staff problems, these were obvious once the "Leaver" verdict was known (2016).

b) You have to make educated "guesses", you can use jargon words to make it sound more scientific, that is what CEO's etc are paid such high salaries for, isn't it?

c) As already stated, I am not absolving the Government of blame, but, they re not the only culprits IMHO.

As I have said elsewhere... once the "leave" vote was known (2016), it must have been clear that labour shortages in certain Industries would occur. Sourcing alternative labour, changing business model (if possible) and/or automation (if possible) would have been a sensible approach IMHO. Again, as I have said elsewhere, I am not absolving Government (or those who voted leave, without thinking it through), merely pointing out, that IMHO, they are not alone in their unpreparedness.

Very few in business actually thought totally ending free movement in one go was actually going to happen until the final few months as they saw the government flounder at the negotiating table. What Leavers voted for was never central to what actually happened because seemingly many Leavers had voted for an individual fictional exit.

 

[BoldonLad]

But we were all told that there'd be no problems, we wouldn't be leaving the SM or CU and there'd be sunny uplands/cherry on cakes etc etc.

So, how can any business plan for this nightmare when they were told that there's no need to?

No-one could plan for this.

You mean people actually believe Politicians know what they are talking about? I am amazed.

 

[the snail]

But we were all told that there'd be no problems, we wouldn't be leaving the SM or CU

To be fair, that changed fairly soon post referendum, with May, so any business should have at least been planning for that contingency? Not much farmers can do though, is there?

 

[cookiemonster]

You mean people actually believe Politicians know what they are talking about? I am amazed.

I am too, 52% of them but that's not a reason to blame businesses for this mess.

You do know what a distraction technique is? Everyone so far has been blamed for the Tories mess and they're going to run out of people to blame very soon.

 

[cookiemonster]

To be fair, that changed fairly soon post referendum, with May, so any business should have at least been planning for that contingency? Not much farmers can do though, is there?

With so many conflicting messages, what can anyone do?

 

[the snail]

With so many conflicting messages, what can anyone do?

Plan for the worst, hope for the best?

 

[mudsticks]

Plan for the worst, hope for the best?

And all this..

For what gain??

 

[the snail]

And all this..

For what gain??

It'll be fantastic, just give it 50 years, you'll see.

 

[mudsticks]

As I have said elsewhere... once the "leave" vote was known (2016), it must have been clear that labour shortages in certain Industries would occur. Sourcing alternative labour, changing business model (if possible) and/or automation (if possible) would have been a sensible approach IMHO. Again, as I have said elsewhere, I am not absolving Government (or those who voted leave, without thinking it through), merely pointing out, that IMHO, they are not alone in their unpreparedness.

And doing all that 'preparedness' to then have it all undermined by cheap imports under WTO , or US trade deals, why would they do that ??

Farming is a long term business

With unstable, and unpredictable markets, uncertain income, no knowledge of what is happening long term, why would they do that

Very few farmers or producers were ever making big money .

The commodity price is pegged to what the buyers know is the cost of production, it's a buyer's market in perishables .

Many farmers were getting just over the cost of production , not always that .

Also buyers know how much single farm payment farmers were getting.

Many farmers were / are living on that, and credit

Many are going bankrupt .

Having invested in modern high tech equipment, only to see the supply chain , including seasonal labour supply swept away.



Some landowners are fabulously rich, but not as a result of producing food.

 

[BoldonLad]

I am too, 52% of them but that's not a reason to blame businesses for this mess.

You do know what a distraction technique is? Everyone so far has been blamed for the Tories mess and they're going to run out of people to blame very soon.

Yes, I do know what a distraction technique is.

I have repeatedly said, I was not absolving Government from blame (nor for that matter the main opposition party, which failed to campaign against this lunatic decision), but, the reality is, the majority voted "Leave" (I repeat, I was not one of them), we have left, we have known we were going to leave for 5 years. Short of re-joining (unlikely in my lifetime), we have to do the best we can in the situation we find ourselves in. When I say "we", I mean all of us, not just Government. Time enough to punish the Government at the next GE, assuming that is, we have a plausible alternative to vote for.