Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[jowwy]

I know you don't like questions, but I'll give it a shot.
Have you read the report you linked to?
If so, have you looked at what other bodies have said compared to what is in the report? For example in relation to fisheries.

not read it - just put the link up for others to read

 

[LCpl Boiled Egg]

not read it - just put the link up for others to read

Q.E.D.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Music definitely helps..

Apropos music, Brexit has screwed up the earnings and opportunities for UK musicians hoping to tour in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62209989

The government should appoint a touring "tsar" to unravel the red tape facing British musicians in Europe, a cross-party group of MPs and peers has said.​

They would need to tackle the soaring costs of obtaining visas and transporting instruments that bands have encountered since Brexit.​

Some orchestras face bills of £5,000 every time they play abroad, said the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Music.​

It added the industry faced a "crisis" that required "urgent" action.​

The call came in a major report into the state of touring post-Brexit, which warned that musicians and their crew were "facing more costs, more complications and getting fewer opportunities" since the UK left the EU at the end of January 2020. ​

"It's over two years since Brexit, yet there is still a mountain of red tape," said Labour MP Kevin Brennan, who chairs the all-party group. ​

​

"Ultimately, it's a self-inflicted wound that doesn't have to be there."​

​

Rock band White Lies became painfully aware of the situation in April. ​

The group, who have a huge live following in Europe, had to cancel the first date of their 2022 tour, after their equipment was caught up in border checks at Dover.​

​

"It was a real disaster," drummer Jack Lawrence-Brown recalled. ​

"Our truck containing all of our equipment and all of the lights and the stage for the show got stuck in an enormous two or three-day-long queue - and there was no chance of the driver getting onto a boat in time to make the show happen, which was pretty devastating."​

​

​

All I’ve seen are disadvantages of Brexit, none of the nebulous benefits.

And if a Brexit fan says we need to wait 40-50 years to see it then they can get lost; we’re seeing the disadvantages right now so I want to see what the plusses are right now.

​

 

[Deleted member 49]

For fecks sake is this sh1t still going on.....step away from the fire 🙄

 

[AndyRM]

not read it - just put the link up for others to read

What on earth is the point in putting up links you haven't even taken the time to read yourself?

The designer of that wants fired into the sun for a start.

 

[jowwy]

i give up.....enjoy your thread, lifes too short for this sh*t

 

[mudsticks]

Apropos music, Brexit has screwed up the earnings and opportunities for UK musicians hoping to tour in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-62209989

The government should appoint a touring "tsar" to unravel the red tape facing British musicians in Europe, a cross-party group of MPs and peers has said.​

They would need to tackle the soaring costs of obtaining visas and transporting instruments that bands have encountered since Brexit.​

Some orchestras face bills of £5,000 every time they play abroad, said the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Music.​

It added the industry faced a "crisis" that required "urgent" action.​

The call came in a major report into the state of touring post-Brexit, which warned that musicians and their crew were "facing more costs, more complications and getting fewer opportunities" since the UK left the EU at the end of January 2020. ​

"It's over two years since Brexit, yet there is still a mountain of red tape," said Labour MP Kevin Brennan, who chairs the all-party group. ​

​

"Ultimately, it's a self-inflicted wound that doesn't have to be there."​

​

Rock band White Lies became painfully aware of the situation in April. ​

The group, who have a huge live following in Europe, had to cancel the first date of their 2022 tour, after their equipment was caught up in border checks at Dover.​

​

"It was a real disaster," drummer Jack Lawrence-Brown recalled. ​

"Our truck containing all of our equipment and all of the lights and the stage for the show got stuck in an enormous two or three-day-long queue - and there was no chance of the driver getting onto a boat in time to make the show happen, which was pretty devastating."​

​

​

All I’ve seen are disadvantages of Brexit, none of the nebulous benefits.

And if a Brexit fan says we need to wait 40-50 years to see it then they can get lost; we’re seeing the disadvantages right now so I want to see what the plusses are right now.

​

I know, I've a few friends in the business, who could recount all sorts of similar problems .

But does anyone who voted brexit care ??

They 'won' their pointless and destructive brexit, and that's all that matters..

Unfortunately we have to squat in the detritus with them .

And no we can't move elsewhere - even if we wanted to - because we've had our freedom to live and work in Europe taken away from us too ...

 

[Deleted member 28]

And no we can't move elsewhere - even if we wanted to - because we've had our freedom to live and work in Europe taken away from us too ...

Have you?


I thought you could still visit, work and live in Europe but had to conform with each countries individual rules?

Not so easy now admittedly but still possible.

 

[BoldonLad]

Have you?


I thought you could still visit, work and live in Europe but had to conform with each countries individual rules?

Not so easy now admittedly but still possible.

Yes, still possible, but:

- more complicated, ie more paperwork required
- more costly (visas etc usually have fees attached, not to mention the other things we have lost, like (free) mobile phone roaming etc
- unless you are granted unlimited "right to remain", less secure, they can just decide not to renew your visa/work permit
- as a fellow camper van user, you can are now limited to 90days within the Shenegan area, in any rolling 180 day period, whereas, before you could roam freely, for as long as you wanted.
- customs rules now apply, you are limited as to how much booze, tobacco etc you can bring with you, plus, you cannot take a whole list of products into the EU (eg dairy products, meat, etc)

No doubt, there are more "little inconveniences", those are simply the ones which immediately spring to mind.

and, in exchange for that, I have "gained"

- different colour passport (who cares?)
- control of "our" borders, only 15,000 people in little boats this year so far (not that I am against immigration personally)
- erm.... can't think of any other "gains"

 

[mudsticks]

Have you?


I thought you could still visit, work and live in Europe but had to conform with each countries individual rules?

Not so easy now admittedly but still possible.

Please see below .

Of course if I'd written all that it would be too tedious to read..

Yawn, yawn, etc etc

But Bolders has done the heavy lifting so you'll have no trouble absorbing it .

My kids, and everyone elses could have worked, lived, loved and studied in the EU free of constraint .

Now, they can't,and as Bolders says .
What benefits have they gained??

Absolutely none.

Yes, still possible, but:

- more complicated, ie more paperwork required
- more costly (visas etc usually have fees attached, not to mention the other things we have lost, like (free) mobile phone roaming etc
- unless you are granted unlimited "right to remain", less secure, they can just decide not to renew your visa/work permit
- as a fellow camper van user, you can are now limited to 90days within the Shenegan area, in any rolling 180 day period, whereas, before you could roam freely, for as long as you wanted.
- customs rules now apply, you are limited as to how much booze, tobacco etc you can bring with you, plus, you cannot take a whole list of products into the EU (eg dairy products, meat, etc)

No doubt, there are more "little inconveniences", those are simply the ones which immediately spring to mind.

and, in exchange for that, I have "gained"

- different colour passport (who cares?)
- control of "our" borders, only 15,000 people in little boats this year so far (not that I am against immigration personally)
- erm.... can't think of any other "gains"

Yes and plenty more restrictions on educational exchange, Erasmus, co created international study and research..

You have to have a massive amount of capital, or big numbers income to get residency..
So most people of limited or modest means are excluded from trying out a European life

Or from retirement there .

But heigh ho, brexiteers knew all this already, and they gaveth not a shoot.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Yes, still possible, but:

- more complicated, ie more paperwork required
- more costly (visas etc usually have fees attached, not to mention the other things we have lost, like (free) mobile phone roaming etc
- unless you are granted unlimited "right to remain", less secure, they can just decide not to renew your visa/work permit
- as a fellow camper van user, you can are now limited to 90days within the Shenegan area, in any rolling 180 day period, whereas, before you could roam freely, for as long as you wanted.
- customs rules now apply, you are limited as to how much booze, tobacco etc you can bring with you, plus, you cannot take a whole list of products into the EU (eg dairy products, meat, etc)

No doubt, there are more "little inconveniences", those are simply the ones which immediately spring to mind.

and, in exchange for that, I have "gained"

- different colour passport (who cares?)
- control of "our" borders, only 15,000 people in little boats this year so far (not that I am against immigration personally)
- erm.... can't think of any other "gains"

So you can then, not what you were implying.

And no we can't move elsewhere - even if we wanted to - because we've had our freedom to live and work in Europe taken away from us too ...

 

[Electric_Andy]

You have to have a massive amount of capital, or big numbers income to get residency..

Isn't this the same anywhere though? I mean, why should all of Europe demand freedom of work/residency, yet other countries (e.g. Oz and NZ) specifically set their own rules so that they only take in rich people, backpackers and those who can contribute to their skills shortage list? It makes sense to me that a country that has mass unskilled workforce puts them first, before letting thousands of others move there to compete for labour. DOn't get me wrong, if it were up to me I would say work and live where you want, the Earth wasn't built with borders. But these are the times we're living in, and I wouldn't assume or expect any country to take me in just becasue i wanted to go. Not without planning and paperwork anyway.

 

[mudsticks]

So you can then, not what you were implying.

No we don't have the same freedoms at all ..


But I really can't be bothered to try to explain why not, Bolders already has, and it's clearly a waste of time, as you seem unable to read or comprehend it, even from him

Isn't this the same anywhere though? I mean, why should all of Europe demand freedom of work/residency, yet other countries (e.g. Oz and NZ) specifically set their own rules so that they only take in rich people, backpackers and those who can contribute to their skills shortage list? It makes sense to me that a country that has mass unskilled workforce puts them first, before letting thousands of others move there to compete for labour. DOn't get me wrong, if it were up to me I would say work and live where you want, the Earth wasn't built with borders. But these are the times we're living in, and I wouldn't assume or expect any country to take me in just becasue i wanted to go. Not without planning and paperwork anyway.

It's not a case of demanding it fresh though is it?.

It's what we aleady had, as part of the EU, and we chucked it away for nothing.
I agree FOM in principle.

In this case though, we of, and in this country had those freedom's, and then we chucked it away for nothing.

 

[icowden]

Isn't this the same anywhere though? I mean, why should all of Europe demand freedom of work/residency, yet other countries (e.g. Oz and NZ) specifically set their own rules so that they only take in rich people, backpackers and those who can contribute to their skills shortage list?

Because it is beneficial to Europe

it is an under-reported fact that freedom of movement is actually the EU’s most popular achievement: a 2013 Eurobarometer survey ranked the freedom above both sustained peace in Europe and Erasmus student exchanges. Both of these are highly valued on the continent – over a quarter of a million people participate in the Erasmus programme every year. A 2010 Eurobarometer study reported that ten per cent of those surveyed had taken advantage of the freedom of movement, while 17% stated that they intended to do so. As well as being popular, studies show that freedom of movement has conferred many benefits. The OECD estimated in 2012 that free mobility of labour in the EU had yielded a six per cent reduction in unemployment across the territory. The European Commission has argued that freedom of movement rights granted to the citizens of accession countries in 2004 had by 2007 been responsible for a one per cent increase in the GDP of the old EU15.

Our children can no longer broaden their minds and expand their knowledge by working in France, or Italy, or Germany.
Our fruit and vegetables lie unpicked because in the UK this work is seasonal for a short period of time and we shut out the professional travelling eastern European fruit pickers. Have you tried fruit picking in January in the UK? We are shut out of scientific research projects, our musicians can no longer perform without arduous paperwork and additional costs. We can no longer have visiting musicians from Europe unless they are willing to complete tonnes of paperwork.

The press always tout an image of the system being abused and the potential for a country to be deluged with migrant workers taking jobs from the people who live there. There has still never been a single case or even suggestion of this happening anywhere. It's a Euro myth.

 

[Tanis8472]

i give up.....enjoy your thread, lifes too short for this sh*t

Don't let the door hit you on the way out