Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[mudsticks]

You didn't say that though did you?

I've quoted what you said already, what part of what I said don't you understand?

Yes I did, I said we, and our children, have had our freedom to live work study etc in EU, taken away..

We are no longer free to do those things .

We have to apply for visas, and fulfil certain financial criteria, have time limits, opportunities are no longer open to us, and other restrictions are put on us, which we were not subject to before.

Therefore we have had our freedoms taken away.


But you're determined not to comprehend, or rather determined to pretend you don't get it, so I won't bother with it any more.

We lose out - we get nothing in return - you don't care - is basically the long and short of it..

 

[Electric_Andy]

We lose out - we get nothing in return - you don't care - is basically the long and short of it..

I think that's the long and short of it for most people who voted leave. I doubt many leave voters are that concerned about their kids having opportunities in the EU, or missing out on scientific research. As long as their holiday in Benidorm is unaffected (which as I gather from my colleague is still nice and easy, and cheap). If there's any good news, I'm fairly sure the last 2 years of shoot-show will at least open some people's eyes as to what the Tories are capable of and what their priorities are

 

[Deleted member 28]

Yes I did, I said we, and our children, have had our freedom to live work study etc in EU, taken away..

We are no longer free to do those things .

We have to apply for visas, and fulfil certain financial criteria, have time limits, opportunities are no longer open to us, and other restrictions are put on us, which we were not subject to before.

Therefore we have had our freedoms taken away.


But you're determined not to comprehend, or rather determined to pretend you don't get it, so I won't bother with it any more.

We lose out - we get nothing in return - you don't care - is basically the long and short of it..

So you can still do the things you said you can't but you have to do something extra in order to do so?

A bit like saying you can no longer drive a car, because of the seat belt laws, well you can but you have to put your seat belt on first.

Or ride a motorcycle before helmet laws came in, you can but you need to wear a helmet first.

 

[Deleted member 28]

I would be interested to hear from anyone on here with actual experience of said freedom removal and the denial of these opportunities, or even if they've succeeded in doing any of the above and how difficult it was.

My only experience is a pal who has a place in Tenerife and up to yet hasn't appeared to have had any difficulties going over, obviously this is just a holiday home so stays of 3-4 weeks is the norm.

I believe @mudsticks has foreign workers, how has it affected their ability to work for you since Brexit?

 

[newfhouse]

So you can still do the things you said you can't but you have to do something extra in order to do so?

A bit like saying you can no longer drive a car, because of the seat belt laws, well you can but you have to put your seat belt on first.

Or ride a motorcycle before helmet laws came in, you can but you need to wear a helmet first.

A better analogy might be that you have to apply to ride your motorbike for more than three days in any week and that any permission granted in Warwickshire doesn’t apply in Staffordshire and may even count against you.

 

[Fab Foodie]

A better analogy might be that you have to apply to ride your motorbike for more than three days in any week and that any permission granted in Warwickshire doesn’t apply in Staffordshire and may even count against you.

Persistence is futile....

 

[BoldonLad]

I would be interested to hear from anyone on here with actual experience of said freedom removal and the denial of these opportunities, or even if they've succeeded in doing any of the above and how difficult it was.

My only experience is a pal who has a place in Tenerife and up to yet hasn't appeared to have had any difficulties going over, obviously this is just a holiday home so stays of 3-4 weeks is the norm.

I believe @mudsticks has foreign workers, how has it affected their ability to work for you since Brexit?

Not sure if this qualifies as a “removal of freedom”, but, I was recently in Budapest. On a previous visit (pre-brexit), I was able to ride the metro system free, because I was a Pension age EU passport holder. Well, this time, I haven’t got younger, but, no longer have an EU passport, so, had to pay on metro. No big deal of course, it was only a couple of Euros, but, somehow, I don’t feel I got a bargain, with my different colour passport.

 

[Xipe Totec]

A better analogy might be that you have to apply to ride your motorbike for more than three days in any week and that any permission granted in Warwickshire doesn’t apply in Staffordshire and may even count against you.

Or perhaps if you want to ride anywhere at all, you'll need a motorcycle certified as legal, roadworthy and taxed, and you'll need to have obtained the correct license and purchased insurance, as well as wearing legally approved protective clothing.

Regrettably you may now no longer use your bicycle, which previously you could ride anywhere you liked, wearing whatever you pleased, with next-to-no scrutiny and minimal outlay.

 

[mudsticks]

I would be interested to hear from anyone on here with actual experience of said freedom removal and the denial of these opportunities, or even if they've succeeded in doing any of the above and how difficult it was.

My only experience is a pal who has a place in Tenerife and up to yet hasn't appeared to have had any difficulties going over, obviously this is just a holiday home so stays of 3-4 weeks is the norm.

I believe @mudsticks has foreign workers, how has it affected their ability to work for you since Brexit?

My German farm help has just received settled status, she wouldn't have had to apply to do this previously.

Possibly wouldn't have come here at all, under the current system
That would have been a great loss to me, and our community.


The farm union I'm part of no longer gets EU help with education, and travel for union work.

My son was hoping to go and live / work in Lisbon - but now cannot - as he no longer qualifies to stay there long term.

Lisbon's loss, is Glasgow's gain, perhaps ..
But still..

I've got friends in university departments who have lost funding for collaborative projects with other EU universities.

Also students from abroad who were going to study here, at their universities are no longer coming from EU, due to red tape and in part due the sense of hostility towards 'foreigners' that has been at play since brexit. .

EFL language schools in this area have seen a drop in business, since the paperwork to get students here has become far more difficult.

There's plenty more but I'm not really sure you're that interested anyway, or you will say that none of this is very important , because it doesn't affect you and your little Englander view of the world.

 

[icowden]

I really wish I could unsee that.
What a load of bullshit propaganda.

Let's look at it more closely...

● Ended free movement and taken back control of our borders.
This is a negative, not a positive. Countries in the EU have lower unemployment and higher GDP as a result.

● Restored democratic control over our lawmaking.
We always had absolute control over out lawmaking as all EU countries do

● Restored the UK Supreme Court as the final arbiter of the law that applies in
the UK.
Yep. This one's a good one. We now have no influence on EU law but have got to comply with EU standards if you are going to export into the EU. Who decides the standards? Well, ultimately they're interpreted by the ECJ... So we have lost power.

● Made it tougher for EU criminals to enter the UK.
In true Boris style, this one is just a lie. We have made it tougher for EU residents who have a criminal record to enter the UK. At the same time we have lost access to the EU Criminal Records System and the EU passenger database. Whilst in the EU we could prevent anyone entering the UK if we could justify the stance that they were a serious or active threat. Now we won't know who they are anyway. But good news! We can kick out rough sleepers and people who have been in sham marriages. Result!!

● Ended the acceptance of ID cards for most EU nationals travelling to the UK.
Yep. See above. We don't know who they are anyway

● Taken back control of our waters.
Hoorah! We now have control of our waters. We can't sell the fish anywhere as we don't have access to the EU Single Market and our fish now have to pass third country health and hygiene controls.

UK fisheries management also continues in a state of interdependence with significant EU access to UK waters remaining, including in the six to 12 nautical miles off the UK coast, which the government claimed would be kept exclusively for UK boats. New regulations and logistical barriers brought in by the Brexit trade deal also mean that exporting fish and seafood costs more and takes longer, so fish is less fresh and customers have been lost, the researchers say.

So - winning!!🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰🍰

 

[Unkraut]

I would be interested to hear from anyone on here with actual experience of said freedom removal and the denial of these opportunities, ...

I moved to Germany during EEC days, the EU followed a couple of years later. There was no problem, residency was guaranteed, and there was an integrated social security system in place. For anyone post-Brexit wanting to do that it is nothing like as simple. Bureaucratic form filling and a loss of rights previously enjoyed, namely to live and work abroad. It's not impossible to move but you now have to show you will not be a potential burden on the German state, in other words this is easier if you are already well off. I cannot be sure if this had been in place when I moved I would have been allowed to do so.

If you stay and acquire German nationality you have to give up your British nationality.

 

[Mugshot]

What part of 'the same freedoms' do you not understand..??

Food will likely be more expensive and we will have less choice.

You can still buy food can't you?

Well, yes, bu...

La la la la la, not listening to you!

 

[icowden]

Just realised there were more benefits!!

• Restored fair access to our welfare system.

This one is a lie. All EU countries set their own rules for access to benefits and welfare.

● Set our own tariff regime via the UK Global Tariff. We streamlined and simplified nearly 6,000 tariff lines, lowering costs for businesses by reducing administrative burdens,
Just "ha ha ha ha ha". How stupid do the Government think we are. This is a lie.

● Committed £180 million to modernise and streamline our import and export controls by creating the Single Trade Window.
Yes this will compensate for the £12+ billion lost in trade.

● Given UK regulators the ability and the resources to make sovereign decisions about globally significant mergers.
Translation - we don't have to consult the EU anymore if a merger is so large that it might affect competition in the EU. Happily all globally significant countries have now left or are leaving the UK anyway, so the problem won't arise.

● Launched and are undertaking reviews of the status and substance of retained EU law.
This isn't a benefit. This is what you have to do when you withdraw from an arrangement.

● Reintroduced our iconic blue passports.
This could have been done whilst in the EU and is therefore rowlocks.

● Reviewing the EU ban on imperial markings and sales.
Yes, this is a benefit. Except that there was no ban, just the requirement for all measures to show metric alongside imperial. No-one uses imperial measures except some very backward countries like the US.

● Enabling businesses to use a crown stamp symbol on pint glasses.
This is not a Brexit benefit as it could have been done whilst we were in the EU.

Still winning!

 

[Fab Foodie]

If you stay and acquire German nationality you have to give up your British nationality.

Seems a good deal to me....

 

[mudsticks]

Just realised there were more benefits!!

• Restored fair access to our welfare system.

This one is a lie. All EU countries set their own rules for access to benefits and welfare.

● Set our own tariff regime via the UK Global Tariff. We streamlined and simplified nearly 6,000 tariff lines, lowering costs for businesses by reducing administrative burdens,
Just "ha ha ha ha ha". How stupid do the Government think we are. This is a lie.

● Committed £180 million to modernise and streamline our import and export controls by creating the Single Trade Window.
Yes this will compensate for the £12+ billion lost in trade.

● Given UK regulators the ability and the resources to make sovereign decisions about globally significant mergers.
Translation - we don't have to consult the EU anymore if a merger is so large that it might affect competition in the EU. Happily all globally significant countries have now left or are leaving the UK anyway, so the problem won't arise.

● Launched and are undertaking reviews of the status and substance of retained EU law.
This isn't a benefit. This is what you have to do when you withdraw from an arrangement.

● Reintroduced our iconic blue passports.
This could have been done whilst in the EU and is therefore rowlocks.

● Reviewing the EU ban on imperial markings and sales.
Yes, this is a benefit. Except that there was no ban, just the requirement for all measures to show metric alongside imperial. No-one uses imperial measures except some very backward countries like the US.

● Enabling businesses to use a crown stamp symbol on pint glasses.
This is not a Brexit benefit as it could have been done whilst we were in the EU.

Still winning!

There's so much bahoolix it's hard to know where to start .
For instance, we haven't heard much lately about the joys of deregulating over-bent cucumbers and other such nonsense have we.??

Cos that never was against EU regs..
That was supermarkets, who set such standards .

You go to markets,and even many 'super' markets on the continent .
They can sell what they like, so long as it's within safe and proper food regs.

So much blame, and misinformed / deliberate lies was put onto being the fault of meddling from Brussels.

And that's only in food and agriculture.
I'm sure there was plenty of misinformation put about in other sectors , of which I'm not aware.