Oh no!! Brexit not going quite as well as hoped

[Fab Foodie]

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

Is there a flounce in the offing?

 

[Hitchington]

 

[BoldonLad]

Is there a flounce in the offing?

Could we be that lucky?

 

[BoldonLad]

Isn't this the same anywhere though? I mean, why should all of Europe demand freedom of work/residency, yet other countries (e.g. Oz and NZ) specifically set their own rules so that they only take in rich people, backpackers and those who can contribute to their skills shortage list? It makes sense to me that a country that has mass unskilled workforce puts them first, before letting thousands of others move there to compete for labour. DOn't get me wrong, if it were up to me I would say work and live where you want, the Earth wasn't built with borders. But these are the times we're living in, and I wouldn't assume or expect any country to take me in just becasue i wanted to go. Not without planning and paperwork anyway.

1. it goes a bit beyond that, it is free movement of people and goods/services. Could it be a good idea because it is to the individuals advantage?

2. We have not done that have we, we have cut off the supply of Labour we needed (ie skills which were in short supply, and/or jobs which Brits don't want), so, we can't even harvest our crops, for example.

3. Is that is what we aspire to, being a Country with a "mass unskilled workforce"?, I thought is was about putting the "Great" back into Great Britain?

 

[mudsticks]

1. it goes a bit beyond that, it is free movement of people and goods/services. Could it be a good idea because it is to the individuals advantage?

2. We have not done that have we, we have cut off the supply of Labour we needed (ie skills which were in short supply, and/or jobs which Brits don't want), so, we can't even harvest our crops, for example.

3. Is that is what we aspire to, being a Country with a "mass unskilled workforce"?, I thought is was about putting the "Great" back into Great Britain?

Thing is, from an agricultural labour force pov I'm no great fan of people being expected to work back-breakingly hard, for just about a decent wage..

... However, people still demand or even expect 'cheap*' at the point of sale..
Some people can't help but do this , because the price of property - renting or mortgaging, has been pushed sky high by capitalisation of property, the insufficiency of affordable rented houding..

If you look at the true cost of food, relative to everything else it has been depressed for decades..

Brexitty types claim they want British produce, produced by British workers..

But even if we had a 'home grown labour force skilled, willing, and experienced enough in this field - we dont - it will take many years to get to that point - even if we start now - would they be prepared to pay the whole cost??

Would they be prepared to petition the supermarkets to take less of a cut, so farmers, growers, and their workers could make a living wage from doing work in safe, and not too arduous conditions..??

The reality for most people when they get to the shops is that they buy on price alone..

*At least half the costs are externalised..

 

[Tanis8472]

This is how the government sees it - take from it what you will or pooh pooh it, like you usually do

https://assets.publishing.service.g...ment_data/file/1054643/benefits-of-brexit.pdf

I really wish I could unsee that.
What a load of bullshit propaganda.

 

[AndyRM]

I really wish I could unsee that.
What a load of bullshit propaganda.

I'm reading through it again, for some reason.

Stamps on pint glasses? I never even knew that was a thing, and I'm sure the queen doesn't give a f*ck either.

I imagine she sits around getting hammered on gin from a bone china mug or something.

 

[winjim]

The level of credulity and cognitive dissonance in some people is unreal. Like 'this bunch of people that I despise and distrust are telling me the thing they gave me is great and is just what I wanted and I believe them'.

There's no argument I can make against that. I get irrationality and that we make decisions with our hearts rather than our heads, I've said that about Brexit before and we do it all the time in other ways. It's a natural mechanism we've evolved to survive and most of the time it's fine. And we seek out justification for our decisions, so we'll only read the positive reviews of a product we've already decided in our hearts we want, and ignore the negative. Most of the time it's fine, like I bought a new jacket I didn't really need, no big deal. But this is incredible, the hold on people that the Tory party has managed to create, even on those who oppose them and don't personally vote for them. It's terrifying.

 

[Deleted member 28]

Yes, still possible,

Thank you,

1 person said you can't, I said you can, which you have also said you can.

The rest was never in dispute and could have been made easier but there you have it.

 

[newfhouse]

It's terrifying.

It’s religion. Many would rather burn at the stake than renounce.

 

[winjim]

It’s religion. Many would rather burn at the stake than renounce.

It's part of the culture wars. Leave voters have 'Brexiteer' as a personal identity and 'Remoaner' as 'the other'. I see it too on the pro-EU side but to a much lesser extent, however that might be my bias. I felt a strong identity as a 'Remainer' a few years ago but it's faded slightly since we left for good and I've got other things in my life to worry about.

 

[mudsticks]

Thank you,

1 person said you can't, I said you can, which you have also said you can.

The rest was never in dispute and could have been made easier but there you have it.

What part of 'the same freedoms' do you not understand..??

 

[mudsticks]

The level of credulity and cognitive dissonance in some people is unreal. Like 'this bunch of people that I despise and distrust are telling me the thing they gave me is great and is just what I wanted and I believe them'.

There's no argument I can make against that. I get irrationality and that we make decisions with our hearts rather than our heads, I've said that about Brexit before and we do it all the time in other ways. It's a natural mechanism we've evolved to survive and most of the time it's fine. And we seek out justification for our decisions, so we'll only read the positive reviews of a product we've already decided in our hearts we want, and ignore the negative. Most of the time it's fine, like I bought a new jacket I didn't really need, no big deal. But this is incredible, the hold on people that the Tory party has managed to create, even on those who oppose them and don't personally vote for them. It's terrifying.

Some will say that it's 'admirable' the level of control that the Tory party have over people's minds.

But like yourself I find it pretty terrifying.

 

[Deleted member 28]

What part of 'the same freedoms' do you not understand..??

You didn't say that though did you?

I've quoted what you said already, what part of what I said don't you understand?

 

[newfhouse]

You didn't say that though did you?

I've quoted what you said already, what part of what I said don't you understand?

Applying for permissions which may or may not be granted is not freedom.